October 2002 Message Board

Oct 1, 2002 - 11:56 - From: Owen
Title: Wishbones
Message: My rear wishbones have seen better days. They're not bad, the car's just past it's MOT, with nothing more than a "they could do with a bit of waxoyl" from the examiner, but I'd still like to prolong their life for as long as possible, and they are 12 years old (car is a 1990 G plate). So I was thinking about removing them, wirebrushing them and painting with hammerite or similar. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? How hard is it to remove them? Assuming everything goes back on the same way it came off (with new bushes, obviously) then would the suspension need setting up professionally? Also, since I've got the S2 wheels on, what bits would be worth replacing due to the heavier wheels?

Oct 1, 2002 - 15:38 - From: Laurence
Title: Wishbones
Message: Owen, Regarding the rear wishbones, I'm not sure just cleaning up outside is enough, I should think internal waxoyl injection is just as important for these items. Personally if I was going to the trouble of removing them I would put Peter Bently's new stainless ones on. Regarding upgrading see my post of the 20th further up the board for full details. On the back all you can do is make improvements to geometry adjustability with S2 top links and go to the slightly stiffer S2 dampers (or adjustable alternatives) but then you should probably do that all round rather than just at one end. Laurence

Oct 1, 2002 - 17:26 - From: Ian
Title: Bloody car
Message: Er.... my car is stuck outside with headlights that won't turn off! When I turn the switch on the dash, the dash lights go off and the side lights go off, but the headlights refuse to go down or turn off.... anyone got any ideas before my battery runs flat?

Oct 1, 2002 - 17:56 - From: Matthew Welsh
Title: Bloody car
Message: Pull the fuse for the headlights. Temporary but effective.

Oct 1, 2002 - 21:11 - From: Dean G
Title: LOG was fun
Message: Had a great time at LOG, 2800 miles worth! The auto-x brought out at least 7 M100’s that I counted. The course set up allowed me to baby my bad first gear and do most of my run in second. This is the first time I was consistently able to slide the rear end. The Dunlop SP9000s screamed bloody murder (37 psi front, and 35 rear. I think I could safely lower the rear pressure but I need to “chalk the tires” before I go any lower on the fronts. At Blackhawk Farms Raceway I was able to get about 1/2 hour of touring time. Lots of fun even though touring had a 70 mph limit. I spent most of my time in 2nd gear. My ride with Dave M was all 3rd and 4th, much quicker! Thanks Dave. I also managed to get a ride for a few laps in a Europa. Its amazing how different two Lotus can be. I hope to have the car better prepared for LOG23 (Buffalo NY August 15-17), definitely a new transmission, eliminate pre-cat, larger K&N filter.

Oct 1, 2002 - 23:46 - From: Doug
Title: Castrol TAF-X in the USA
Message: Here is the response to the inquiry I sent to Castrol USA about where to get Castrol TAF-X in the USA: "Castrol TAF-X 75W-90 GL-4 gear oil is made in the U.K. and sold only in Europe. However, the equivalent in the U.S. is Syntorq LT. Having said that, Syntorq LT SAE 75W-85, API GL -4 is a premium high performance, synthetic gear lubricant for synchronized manual transmissions. The all new "clean slate" approach enables Syntorq LT to provide consistent performance and durability under the most severe operating conditions due to its unique polymer free formula. It has been designed primarily as a problem solving gear lubricant for manual transmissions to provide reduced gearshift effort at low temperatures. Syntorq LT is available through General Motors (Part #12346190) and Chrysler (Part #4637579) dealerships. Please contact your local dealership."

Oct 2, 2002 - 00:55 - From: Dimitris GR
Title: Wheels
Message: Hi guys. A few days after my 2nd Track Day, I am sure that the best thing to do is to buy a set of (cheep, 2nd handed, iron) wheels accompanied by a set of tires to rest in my garage and wear them for the track days. I found out that our S2 16" wheels are 7Jx16H2, PCD:4x100, ET:60. All except ET are quite common, but my tire(d)-man could not find a wheel to match ET:60. The usual ET for all car models is 35-40, and the biggest ET he found was 51, far less than 60. Does anyone know if there's a car model (preferably European) that uses these sizes? Or a wheel's brand that makes them? Far more, if I use ET:40 (for example) the wheels will be outer than stock. Would that be a dramatic change at Elan's geometry that makes this solution forbidden? Thank you all. :)

Oct 2, 2002 - 07:08 - From: Laurence
Title: ALDL Software
Message: Hi Alan. What would be the minimum laptop spec to run your software? Rob C has been looking for a spare laptop to experiment with and I have found one at work that is working but it's very old. An Acer 780C (colour screen) which I think is a 486 and it's running Windows 3.11. It may be possible to wipe it and install windows 95 but I'm not sure if it's even worth the trouble. What do you think? Laurence Laurence

Oct 2, 2002 - 08:53 - From: Dave M.
Title: computer interface
Message: What is everyone doing for their ALDL to RS232 connections? I have e-mailed Andy W. about his pre-made pieces, but no reply. My friend Sanj (who has done lots on the Esprit side of datalogging) is out of circuit boards and can't make any others. I was given the following to check with, but not sure what exactly I need to know if it would work. http://www.wotelectronics.com/cables.html  I'd really like to have something to test in 1 1/2 weeks at the last track day. I'll have a couple electronics guys around, too to help sort any problems that may arise. I don't even want to talk about when Kyle from BHP showed me his VR-4 Galant's datalogging system this weekend...running through his Palm! Those DSM buggers...same goes for the Hon-duh folks! ;)

Oct 2, 2002 - 11:09 - From: Philbo
Title: ALDL laptops
Message: Laurence, the ALDL program is written in Delphi and is a 32-bit application. So it will only run on Win95 and above. Generally it will run about as well as Windows itself runs. Win95 and a 486 is just about do-able, but it will be zero fun if it's a SL type chip of less than 50Mhz, and especially if the RAM is less than 16Mb. My advice is, don't bother, it'll be a world of hurt :-) Find a cheapo laptop that's a bit more up to date elsewhere. They're out there.

Oct 2, 2002 - 14:05 - From: Dave M.
Title: wastegate arm
Message: The turbo BHP built has a similar turnbuckle to Tony V's old Elan's MBC. Basically you shorten the actuator arm so the wastegate opens by a smaller amount. MBC without the bleeder. As I'm having a problem getting my car over 17 psi, I thought I would use this adjustment to determine where my issue is (the ball/spring bleeder valve or the HKS pressure relief unit or other). I'm assuming by "shortening the arm" you actually expand the diaphragm within the actuator so it only moves a shorter distance under boost, thereby opening the wastegate less. Does this sound right? Adjusting the arm on the car is nearly impossible, so I thought I'd yank the actuator, adjust, then put it back in. I figure the only way to get the "shorter" arm to reach the wastegate clip is to expand the diaphragm by pulling on the arm. Thoughts?

Oct 2, 2002 - 14:24 - From: Doug
Title: wastegate
Message: Dave, I agree with your reasoning, but (shaking my finger) shouldn't you have tested the actuator diaphragm and visualized the wastegate motion before you assembled them? That way you'd know at what pressures things move and at what pressure the gate is really fully open. Sounds to me like, using the MBC still, you have two variables. You could adjust either one to allow more max boost, but then if your MBC is open and you can't get higher boost then I agree you'll have to adjust the rod so it doesn't open the w-gate as fully! In the OE set-up you are correct that shortening it will do this, but be sure your new set-up is the same way.

Oct 2, 2002 - 15:26 - From: Fiona
Title: Overheating
Message: Can anyone help? I've got a 1995 S2 which keeps overheating, sometimes it goes for days without any problems and others it just goes crazy with a few minutes of starting. I've been back to the dealer 3 times now and they say they can't find a problem. Some weeks I have to put a litre of water in every day. I can't see any leaks and the dealer says the fans are working ok. Has anyone got details of someone who really knows about my car rather than just fobbing me off? I've been using the dealer in Sheffield and I'm not best pleased so far its cost me nearly 200 pounds and the best part of a week for them not to fix my car. Fi

Oct 2, 2002 - 16:35 - From: Laurence
Title: Overheating
Message: Fiona, have the garage changed the thermostat? I would have thought that would be the first thing to do. It may also be worth checking the state of the filler cap on the header tank (I found the rubber seal missing on my car) I live down South so I can't help with a dealer recommendation but it's probably also worth asking on www.british-cars.co.uk  on the Lotus elan technical bulletin board. Most of the members are M100 owners. Good Luck Laurence

Oct 2, 2002 - 17:23 - From: Fiona
Title: Overheating
Message: Thanks Laurence, they changed the thermostat about 3 months ago and it made no difference in fact if anything it got worse. I've since had the system flushed through and pressure tested. The seal on the cap looks fine as I see it almost every day now! Funny thing is I can drive for miles and miles or be stuck in traffic and the gauge behaves itself but start up next day to nip down to the shops and the gauge is off the scale in minutes. My heater has been playing up as well. I'll try that other site. Thanks Fi

Oct 2, 2002 - 17:38 - From: Ed Miller
Title: computer interface
Message: Hi Dave, I have the ALDL from http://www.wotelectronics.com/cables.html  and have used it with my Esprit successfully. I haven't tried it with the Elan, but will do so today or tomorrow. I'm also anxious and curious to know if it will work. When I find out, I will certainly report it back to you...Ed

Oct 2, 2002 - 19:44 - From: Ed
Title: crush washers
Message: Where can you buy crush washers for the oil drain plug?

Oct 2, 2002 - 21:26 - From: Ed Miller
Title: crush washers
Message: Try JAE at www.jaeparts.com  -- that's where I got mine.

Oct 2, 2002 - 22:55 - From: Don Ferrario
Title: wastegate arm
Message: Dave M: Changing the length of the wastegate arm is exactly how I did my boost modification, when I bought my car new, 11 years ago. This was before anyone was talking about bleed valves. Through the back door, Lotus engineering advised us how much to change the length, as a starting point. We cut the rod, and installed a turnbuckle. Unfortunately, I can't now remember if it was shortened or lengthened, but I believe it was shortened.

If you look at the Lotus service manual, you will see that the original design included a waste gate rod with an adjuster. That was changed to a fixed rod, before any USA cars were shipped.

That method of boost control has worked fine for me. I have seen no peaking or such. It just goes up to 0.8 and stays there (until I take my foot out of it!). I am concerned, however, that after my exhaust is changed to 2.5", the turbo will flow more, and the setting will be wrong.

Oct 2, 2002 - 23:27 - From: Doug
Title: boost
Message: Don, your concerns are probably right. You will get a much better boost response and a bit higher flow which may make your car hit the cut-off. Certainly the mods are for the better. You can lengthen the rod a tad and all will be fine, assuming you have microscopic heat-resistant hands and can reach that rod to adjust it.

Oct 3, 2002 - 00:21 - From: Doug
Title: West Coast Lotus Meet
Message: Hey guyz, who's going to the WCLM??? For those who have been spacing out it is October 24-27 and info and registration can be found at GGLC's site ( www.gglotus.org )!! I will be there on Saturday the 26th. We should all plan to meet up somewhere . . . I will drive down Friday nite and buy beers for who ever puts me up! I'll do show-and-tell with my Laptop with Alan's ElanScan program running and let you use it to check your car if you are nice. Any of you SoCal boys up for the drive?

Oct 3, 2002 - 01:17 - From: Brian MDB
Title: Brake upgrade costs
Message: For those that are considering upgrading their Front Brakes, I've come up with the following costing for a DIY kit of Wilwood parts to fit 16" wheeled Elans. (The costs are contingent of batch runs of 5 car sets). 4-piston Calipers, 12.19" dia x .81" thick Rotors, custom Aluminum Hats & Brackets, Porterfield Pads, Anodizing, Bolts, plating and New front S/S Hoses = approx $750 per car. Please let's hear your comments on this so we can judge if it's worth pursuing as a group. To do this individually the cost would be closer to $900 unless you can machine the brackets and hats yourself.

Oct 3, 2002 - 02:48 - From: Alan
Title: ALDL Software
Message: Laurence, Philbo hit the nail right on the head. It needs a 32-bit operating system and a slow PC (486) with little memory would probably not be a good idea. It uses quite a lot of memory when a big log file is open. I reckon a PII minimum would be advisable, the more memory the better. I use it on a 1.2GHz PIII with 256Mb of RAM. I haven't tried it on anything less powerful. The next version (with an 'overlay' facility so you can compare logs!) is in the pipeline. I've identified a few more parameters including spark advance, air control valve state, waste-gate duty cycle & injector pulse width (some are a bit speculative).

Oct 3, 2002 - 04:13 - From: owen
Title: Fiona
Message: Fiona, Chris Foulds is an independent Lotus specialist in Huddersfield, and is very good. I live near Leicester, and would still sooner take my car all the way up there than let any main dealer look at it. But from Sheffield, it's only 20 miles or so.

Oct 3, 2002 - 04:33 - From: owen
Title: Oil leak
Message: I got a small oil leak, originating from somewhere underneath the front bumper on the drivers side. I think it may be the oil cooler, and have taken the inner wing shield off to look at it. There's quite a bit of oil around there, but I can't really see where it's coming from. I tried to tighten up one of the hose connections at the top of the cooler, but it was as tight as I could get it (i couldn't reach the other one without being deformed!). I know the oil cooler was replaced by the previous owner due to a low speed shunt (or so he claims), so i don't think the cooler itself is damaged. Has anyone else had a similar leak?

Oct 3, 2002 - 04:40 - From: owen
Title: Number plate cover
Message: Me again - bored in work. I have got a perspex cover over my rear number plate, and was tempted to remove it and replace the number plate surround with the updated open one, until I saw the price - about £130! I don't suppose anybody knows where I could get a cheaper one, from a breakers or something? Incidentally, the perspex cover apparently reflects speed camera flashes, which is why they are no longer available - so if anyone wants to swap their more recent one for my perspex one to preserve their license, then drop me a line!

Oct 3, 2002 - 05:14 - From: owen
Title: A pillar seals
Message: My A-pillar seals have one or two very small tears in them. I've only had the car for a month, which just happens to be one of the driest septembers on record (good timing?) so i'm not really sure how much the car leaks, but i'm guessing that these tears are not going to help. So does anyone know of a cheap or second hand alternative to paying Lotus about £200 for the pair?? I really should do some work now....

Oct 3, 2002 - 05:33 - From: Laurence
Title: Number plate cover
Message: Owen I spent the money and changed mine on the SE - personally think it looks better. I don't think you have an option unless anyone wants to swop you. If you do change you also need rubber gaskets (from Lotus) to go under the number plate lights and make them water resistant. Don't try pulling the perspex off it's mounting (like I did) without heating the joint with a hair dryer the perspex will crack - it's anyway best to remove the whole unit with perspex in place and not difficult! Laurence

Oct 3, 2002 - 05:54 - From: Laurence
Title: Seals
Message: Owen, get back to work! You could try patching them with black Sikaflex 221 (humidity curing polyurethane sealant and adhesive)( www.sika.com ). There is a distributor of this product in Southampton called Blake Marine Paints - 02380 636373. It's very messy to use, you need wet hands and it can be sanded down when dry but beware the old seals are soft and easily damaged when sanding the Sikaflex! Laurence

Oct 3, 2002 - 06:12 - From: rudz
Title: overheating
Message: fiona, obviously you're loosing coolant & hence, unlikely to be just a thermostat problem. if it was, you could look up the diagnostics for overheating problems on this site. my guess would be an intermittently operating pressure relief valve on the header tank cap. get it tested with a coolant system pressure tester (just a pump with a gauge), which allows you to pressurize the cap & see what pressure it can hold. very likely it's unable to hold up to 110 kPa (1.1bar) needed for our car. as a clue, if this cap is the culprit, you'd probably see green (or whatever coolant colour you use) traces of the coolant on the header tank. good luck

Oct 3, 2002 - 06:22 - From: rudz
Title: leaking oil cooler hoses ??
Message: owen, i had a similar leak when i bought the Elan some years ago. the first problem i had - leaking oil cooler feed/return hoses. apparently, it was leaking at the point where the rubber hoses are crimped/swaged to the metal portion. you can inspect this better with the RH front wheel jacked up & the wheel & arch liner removed. my leaking hose was the one that had to go through a small aperture into the engine compartment bay but i had both the hoses changed anyway. don't wanna risk having the oil cooler hose burst on me when i'm going full bore !!

Oct 3, 2002 - 06:25 - From: Andrew
Title: Seals
Message: Owen, thanks for distracting me from work! Norman of NTC Cars (01322 229111) has been promising for about 3 years to produce better than standard 'A' pillar seals with proper drain holes etc. They should be about half the cost of the Lotus ones. When I last spoke with him he told me that he was hoping to have them in production 'by the Autumn' - I want some, but he works very slowly! Give him a call and hassle him to hurry up with them!!

Oct 3, 2002 - 06:30 - From: john
Title: elan s2 1996
Message: Can anyone help with their opinions please. whats a elan S2 1996 l.h.d. in A1 cond. very low klms worth.

Oct 3, 2002 - 07:35 - From: Alan
Title: Elanners anonymous
Message: Owen, Four consecutive posts on unrelated subjects in 1hr1min! I'm impressed but you need help:)

Oct 3, 2002 - 07:49 - From: owen
Title: number plate cover, oil leak, seals
Message: Laurence - thanks for your advice about the number plate cover, i thought i'd probably have to shell out the £130. Still worth a try! Rudz, i'll check the oil cooler hoses again, i wiped everything clean last time i looked, so perhaps it'll be easier to tell where the oil is coming from this time. Andrew, i phoned Norman at NTC cars - he said that the Apillar seals are "in development", but they've been concentrating on the hardtop lately as apparently they've "had a breakthrough" with it, and are expecting some considerable progress over the next 6-8 weeks. Then they'll get going again on the seals.

Oct 3, 2002 - 09:10 - From: owen
Title: sad, i know
Message: Alan, you're right, but it beats working! Douglas valley have got a number plate surround off an S2 for £47. Anyone know of any reason why this wouldn't fit or would look stupid?

Oct 3, 2002 - 09:51 - From: Dave M.
Title: overheating/boost/ALDL
Message: Fiona, I had a very similar problem (intermittent hot, then cool for no apparent reason) with an MR2. It was attributed to air in the system (the MR2 had a weird bleed system). You may want to flush it yourself using the write up on this site. It could also be something plugging up the system, then working itself loose. That would cause overheating, and possibly excess pressure in the system which causes loss of fluid. *hanging head in shame from Doug's finger-wagging* Yes, I should have checked wastegate operation when out. I did verify the gate made a solid seal before install, and theoretically wouldn't open using the ball-and-spring MBC until a given pressure. Kyle thinks after a few heat cycles (and I've had a few of those!), it may need retightening. The MBC is fine...tested it with my compressor last night. Ed, thanks for the info on the cable. Did yours come with the ALDL connector, or did you splice like they showed on that site?

Oct 3, 2002 - 10:17 - From: stephen
Title: funny sounds
Message: Has anyone experienced a hiss/squelch noise from the steering when turning lock to lock at low speeds. also has anyone ever had an over heating battery (intermittent).

Oct 3, 2002 - 10:54 - From: Darren
Title: funny sounds
Message: Stephen, the hiss/squelch noises from the steering are perfectly normal, I've never got to the bottom of what they actually are (Bellows ?) but every SE I've ever been in/driven has them. Mine sounds like feeding time at the reptile house when I'm parking.

Oct 3, 2002 - 11:50 - From: Doug
Title: LOL
Message: "feeding time at the reptile house"--now I'm gunna bust a gut each time I am parking. Yes, the sounds are the reptiles running on the treadmill within the power steering pump . . .

Oct 3, 2002 - 12:17 - From: Dave
Title: seals and hardtop
Message: Owen don't hold your breath. The seals have been in development for about 5 years now, same story with the hardtop but, having said that, me and a mate had a really good look at one at Donington earlier this year. It was parked well away from the main car park for some reason mainly we decided because they do look a bit naff :) For a start the seals used look no different to those on the existing hood with a scabby spongy surface ripe for water absorption. The brackets for holding the hardtop down looked very agricultural as well. On the car we saw, the windscreen top seal had been covered with silver gaffer tape, probably to cut down on water ingress. So full confidence there in NTC's capabilities! In terms of exterior design lots of it seems to be shaped around constant radius curves, especially the plan form of the rear screen area. The view from the front and side is sort of ok, the back is a complete nightmare. The worst bit in my eyes was the shape of the rear screen. Call me a nitpicker, but the flimsy thin plastic screen on the Lotus cloth hood is shaped to taper towards the top for a good reason, it looks good. For some reason the hardtop has a rear screen with parallel sides. Combine this with the curved rear to the hood and from almost any angle it looks awkward and nothing like the elegant original that Lotus did. We've took some digital camera shots and back home, unprompted, her indoors says "there is no way you're having one of them it looks so *****" I do agree with her for once! Fortunately, touch wood, my hood doesn't seem to leak and the car is only used in the summer so we can live without it. From what I remember at Donington a few years ago when they had a stand it was really expensive. I can't remember exactly how much as we only had our +2 then and didn't pay much attention, 2000 quid maybe? I could have bought a complete, but sound, +2 for restoration cheaper than that, plus it wouldn't look like an ugly duckling.

Oct 3, 2002 - 12:44 - From: Adam
Title: Insurance
Message: Thinking about buying an elan as i've wanted one since I was about ten but I'm abit concerned about insurance costs. I'm 21, have zero no claims bonus and the best quote so far is £1550. Anyone got any recommended insurance companies that might beat this quote?

Oct 3, 2002 - 12:49 - From: stephen
Title: LIZARD MAINTENANCE
Message: thanks for the reassurance folks i thought it sounded expensive. but now who can tell me what i should feed my steering lizard and how do i get access to change its water.

Oct 3, 2002 - 13:08 - From: Candles
Title: Insurance
Message: I am only a couple of years older than you Adam and found: Jardine Faber Insurance Consultants Ltd. Address: Saxon House 39 Marefair Northampton NN1 5SR. Tel: 01604 639011. Fax: 01604 611700. To be quite good. They offer limited mileage policies which is handy if you are using it as a second car.

Oct 3, 2002 - 13:26 - From: Laurence Kettle
Title: Number plate cover
Message: Owen, well done - go for it they are exactly the same. Laurence

Oct 3, 2002 - 14:09 - From: Derrick
Title: great deal on tires.....
Message: just thought Id pass along some info on a great deal on Yokohama AVS tires in a common Elan size, 235/40/17 at tirerack.com, $63 a piece.

Oct 3, 2002 - 15:46 - From: Doug
Title: 235s
Message: Go Derrick! Just know that you can and likely will get an occasional rub of the tire on the wheel well liner with 235s. At the limits (turned and loaded suspension) there is just the slightest scuff of my 225s (on +47 offset wheels). If you have +40mm offset 17" wheels you will be similar to mine.

Oct 4, 2002 - 03:00 - From: Alex
Title: 2.5 - 3 inch Exhaust
Message: Anyone recommend where to get one of these oversized exhausts in the UK? - are they excessively noisy? Cheers Alex

Oct 4, 2002 - 04:01 - From: Philbo
Title: Exhausts
Message: Alex, do you want a fat tailpipe, a less restrictive backbox or a complete system? Fat tailpipes you can get from anywhere and do virtually nothing. Less restrictive backboxes in S/S can be obtained from lots of places, but try SJ Sportscars. The best complete system I know of is the Paul Matty Sportscars system, 2.5" in S/S from the downpipe, straight through silencer for £400 fitted. Only available for SE's though (not S2's).

Oct 4, 2002 - 05:57 - From: PaulN
Title: High Rev at gear change
Message: Hi guys, Im not sure if this is a problem or not so here goes, I've noticed when the stereo is off (not very often) when I change gear I hear a whizzing noise like reving the engine out of gear. This could most likely be down to short journeys and the car hasn't warmed up properly. Any idea's or confirmation would be great. cheers PaulN

Oct 4, 2002 - 06:11 - From: Owen
Title: Revving out of gear
Message: PaulN, i have the same thing, the car revs when changing up. I find that it stops after the car has warmed up, so i assume it's due to the richer mixture used when cold. I'd have thought an ECU would be programmed to account for this though? Still, it doesn't seem to do any harm, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it!

Oct 4, 2002 - 07:49 - From: Laurence
Title: High Rev at gear change
Message: Paul, if it's just a noise and not the actual engine rev's building. I think you may be describing the noise the Turbo makes when it stalls temporarily on changing gear or sometimes just on deceleration. This is quite common on the Elan and not necessarily a problem. This does not happen if you fit a dump valve or re-circulating/by-pass valve - which is a good idea if you don't have one. Laurence

Oct 4, 2002 - 08:30 - From: Owen
Title: tyre pressures
Message: I'm sure that this has been asked before, but what tyre pressures should i be running - i've got the S2 wheels and tyres on an SE Turbo - is it 26.5psi front and rear? I'm only talking about normal road use, so don't want too harsh a ride that you can get from higher pressures!

Oct 4, 2002 - 15:58 - From: SD
Title: isuzuperformance parts
Message: Does anyone have Bill's upper intercooler pipe w/ valve? I was wondering if it had variable pipe diameter or is it merely a bent pipe. Any comments on the which valve to buy with it? Thanks:)

Oct 4, 2002 - 16:58 - From: Dave M.
Title: intercooler pipe
Message: I have Bill's pipe. The diameter is different at both ends of the pipe as the throttle body opening is slightly larger (~2.5") than the pipe coming from the IC (~2"). I have the larger HKS valve but it appears under less than 1 bar of boost either the standard or larger valve would work just fine. Above 1 bar *may* be an issue as the valve may open under serious boost (I'm in the process of testing this now-but not by choice!). Bill thought it would open (hence the different HP ratings he gives). If you're not planning on running more than 1 bar, go with the standard. It'll fit a little easier in the engine compartment, too. Can you still get one? Beware of promises from Bill...I'd get a definite delivery date before sending any money.

Oct 5, 2002 - 07:59 - From: Alex
Title: exhaust
Message: Philbo, Back box and pipe gone, so thought might as well get a full system and boost that power at the same time. Straight through job sounds good, but don't want to set too much noise, Cheers Alex

Oct 5, 2002 - 09:05 - From: Don Ferrario
Title: bov valves
Message: Re the selection of bov, like several others here I am using the Bosch OEM part. It costs about $30US. It works great, and is OEM for Saab and Porsche.

In installing the valve, it actually can go in either way, as it simply opens and closes. I installed it so the valve spring is *not* holding against the boost pressure. That is, on my car the pressure side comes into the side port of the valve. It really doesn't matter if I'm running 10psi or 100, the spring doesn't see it. If the pressure was extreme, I suppose the valve could stick from side load, but that hasn't been the case.

With all the discussion about which spring to use on the racing valves, I assume those are installed with the spring holding the valve shut against boost pressure. I suppose installing it that way would mean that pressure might make the valve open quicker, as boost pressure would push one side, and vacuum would pull the other - but my installation works just great. For a short while, I ran it the output open, so I knew every time it opened. Well, it opened every time I was in and out of the gas, even slightly in normal driving - not just on shifting. To me, that means it's working optimally.

Installed my way, spring pressure doesn't need to be great, as it isn't working against the boost. It closes very fast.

I do seriously believe that any bov output should be ducted back into the air cleaner or a second air filter if that is easier for you. When the valve closes, I believe there will be some short time (probably 1/10 sec or less) where air will be sucked back in through the valve. That would be unfiltered air, going right into the throttle body. If you were driving in a dusty environment, that would be enough to cause wear or damage over time. I ducted mine back into the original air cleaner box. The outside of the box is the air flow *after* the filter element, so it simply goes around the air plumbing racetrack. If that isn't possible with your valve, you could always rig up a small filter element. One possibility I thought of, is the old "breather element" used on Chevy's back in the 60's and 70's. It's a simple foam filter that was mounted inside the air cleaner, with a rubber hose to the crankcase ventilation valve. Those are typically around $2US. The model is an FB-59 AC filter. That filter had nipple on it that fit a hose of about 1/2" ID. It would be easy to duct that to the output of any BOV.

Oct 5, 2002 - 09:18 - From: Don Ferrario
Title: bov follow-up
Message: Follow-up to my message above... Probably would not be a good idea to use the FB-59 on the bov output. Yes, it would filter the air that got sucked in, but when the bov output is dumped, it likely would blow the foam element right out of the FB-59!

Oct 6, 2002 - 01:40 - From: Brian MDB
Title: Bosch BOV
Message: Follow this link for an interesting account of using a Bosch BOV, and an inexpensive alternative, often these used BOV's can be found on E-Bay, but for peace of mind I'd go for the new part. http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_bov.html 

Oct 6, 2002 - 09:49 - From: Robert Veltz
Title: lamp holders
Message: Does anyone know where I can get side marker lamp holders for my M-100? It appears that larger wattage bulbs were installed at some point and melted only the lamp sockets. The lenses seem to be ok. Thanks, Bob

Oct 7, 2002 - 03:49 - From: Dimitris GR
Title: RE: Pressures (Owen)
Message: S2's tire pressure is 29 psi both f/r...

Oct 7, 2002 - 06:40 - From: Brian
Title: Esprit Sports 350 Magnesio rims: What size are they?
Message: Esprit Sports 350 Magnesio rims: What size are they? I wnat to get them and then adapt them for my Elan M100. Also, if you know the tire size they need let me know. Thanks.

Oct 7, 2002 - 07:00 - From: Brains
Title: RE: Brian
Message: Brian, Do you type in the Dark, or were your eyes closed?

Oct 7, 2002 - 11:04 - From: James Flack
Title: Hi-Spec Brakes
Message: Last week I experienced complete brake failure in the Elan (foot straight to floor – thought I’d hit the clutch pedal!). Fortunately it occurred where I had enough time and space to slow the Elan without external assistance (cars, trees, walls etc). Found there to be no fluid in the reservoir (no tell-tale light warning) so put more in only to find it was quickly draining by the front left wheel. On inspection found the hose had been ripped away from both fixings. The coil that Hi-Spec fitted to provide extra protection for the hose had ironically caused it’s failure. The hose had been mis-directed through, rather than past, the suspension fork positioning it right next to the driveshaft. The end of the coil must have attached itself to the shaft, wrapped itself around it a few times before giving the entire hose a catastrophic tug. Since the other side is perfectly fine and the hose is positioned past the suspension I put Hi-Spec in the clear on this and suspect that when the local garage took the suspension apart to sort the geometry they misplaced the hose when putting it back together. I recommend that anyone with this upgrade checks the position of the hose after any work which has remote potential to misplace it. Undecided as to whether it’s a good idea to keep the coil on the other hose now. Cheers.

Oct 7, 2002 - 12:10 - From: jeremy
Title: side repeaters
Message: Robert, I fitted clear side repeaters with orange bulbs from Demon Tweeks (www) this weekend. They look great. They are the same as the metro - montego - maestro units.

Oct 7, 2002 - 12:15 - From: jeremy
Title: James Flack
Message: Sh*t man,... close one!

Oct 7, 2002 - 12:57 - From: Ian
Title: Hi-Spec Brakes
Message: Er... that sounds extremely scary.... I don't suppose you could take some photos of this could you so I can compare against my own setup. I've had the Hi Spec brakes for about a year now but this has got me rather concerned

Oct 7, 2002 - 17:30 - From: Lotus Judge
Title: Hi-Spec Brakes
Message: Words almost fail me. You did tell your insurer that you were changing the brakng system I suppose?
Was there an accurate assesment of the design requirements and method of installation made as 4 pot calipers with huge pads do not necessarily mean "better brakes"
Does the supplier really have the ability to competantly engineer a new brake caliper into an existing vehicle without introducing other unwanted side effects?
Believe me you almost certainly haven't found them all just yet.
Brake development takes months and months of work, even going out and fitting an AP or Brembo Formula 1 caliper costing some thousands of pounds each to the Elan is no guarantee of performance and in a matter of weeks would almost certainly offer lower braking performance than the original installation.
Bear in mind the standard braking system has been properly engineered so that the brake hose at its mid point is restrained to the top wishbone to avoid such circumstances. and with a standard installations there is no way you could fit the hose through the front damper yoke. A single spring, with no mid point restraint is absolutely no way to fit a front brake hose on the Elan.
It is quite evident that two scenarios are possible:
The original engineering of the Hi-Spec Brakes was faulty or whoever fitted them did so incorrectly.
When will people realise that engineering is a complex task and that in uprating your braking system you might have had a manslaughter charge brought against you.

Oct 7, 2002 - 17:47 - From: Doug
Title: postings
Message: Banter is fine, but if you can't leave your name and identify your beef, then you can be censored if needed. We don't need name calling. It is clear that James understands his problem and what happened. Perhaps the faulty telltale light is the culprit? It is clear you have never seen the design of the single-piston slider mechanism of the Elan. What R&D can you confirm on printed paper about any companies upgrades for the Elan or other cars? Unlikely. Yes they may do 110% of everything possible or they may just size them and install? Also, finding a competent mechanic these days is like finding a law-abiding policeman or a non-crooked lawyer. I can show you the scars on my car resulting from "factory trained Lotus mechanics" performing service on it! I like how you just point the finger at everything and hide behind stupid names . . . (end of discussion, by the way!!)

Oct 7, 2002 - 19:36 - From: very happy
Title: kill the CAT
Message: I have recently done the upgraded exhaust using Bill Sun's PreCat eliminator, 2.5 piping, hi flo cat, and Magnaflo free flo muffler. Was it worth it? Well, it sounded better, there was an improvement @ over 3500 Rpm's and @ speeds over 45 mph, but they were slight. Nowhere night and day, worth the $900 cost, only if you had something in the exhaust chain that was in need of fixing. Well as fate would have it, something came loose in the exhaust system this weekend. I brought it back to the shop (nameless to protect them) and they found a piece of the Hi Flo CAT came loose. That was odd since it was in for only 3weeks..long story short, I got them to remove the CAT (only legal for off road, where I live) and there is a tremendous all around, no doubt about it improvement over the entire RPM range. My car is faster, and altho I haven't timed it, I am almost certain 0-50 has been improved significantly. If you can find a shop or don't need a CAT, it brings the exhaust upgrade from the "something to do when something needs fixing"...to "must do to get the most out of your Elan"

Oct 7, 2002 - 22:31 - From: Don Ferrario
Title: brake hose saga
Message: James, your story struck home with me just today. I am in the process of completing a brake upgrade from Dave Turner, in CA, using Wilwood components. We've been struggling with fitments, because I'm using the stock 16" wheels. The cars Dave has previously done all had aftermarket wheels. We originally tried to use 13.2" rotors (335mm), but ended up with 12.7" (320mm). I'm just starting to drive the car now, and I'll have a more complete report for you all later.

Anyway...the reason for this comment here, is that we almost had a similar brake hose dilemma. In moving the car around the shop, we heard a clicking sound. Since we had been having clearance problems with the wheel spokes, we thought it was that - but didn't see anything. After some time, we finally found it. We had fixed the brake hoses through the original suspension bracket, but one wasn't hanging just the right way. The noise was one of the wheel balance weights touching the braided hose when the wheel was turned far to the right.

We discovered our error before any road testing began - but I can see how you'd better pay special attention to such things when you begin modifications.

Oct 7, 2002 - 23:30 - From: Matthew Welsh
Title: very happy
Message: You've just re-validated why European cars tend to overboost with performance exhausts while US cars do not. Cars, especially those with dual cat converters and turbos, benefit the most from removal of legally mandated exhaust restrictions. I've noticed this on many cars I've owned, the Elan being just one of them. The difference, surprisingly enough, was most striking on a Triumph TR8 and least so on a Nissan 300Z. The difference in each case hinged on how much time and money the OE manufacturer spent in getting the original exhaust to flow. The 300Z OE exhaust was primarily not even made from regular exhaust TUBING, but was custom cast in exotic shapes for almost its entire length. They must have killed all the bean counters in the room to get away with making it.

Oct 7, 2002 - 23:58 - From: Andy Y
Title: Engrish or English
Message: You tell'em Doug! Very well worded too. Not everyone has a BS in English. Seems Mr. Anonymous doesn't realize that you don't have to capitalize after a comma. May I ask why you cap the D in dark? Perhaps your intention was to merely emphasize the word dark? Not as effective as possibly underlining, putting quotations, or parenthesis. Hek, I catch myself doing the same thing as Brian. Seems liek our brains wokr fasters thna our fingners sometiems...Who knows, with the recent anonymous postings, we just might have to assign everyone a password. Or just ignore it and have Doug edit once in a while...Don't wanna give mystery man the satisfation. Thanks for letting me vent.

Oct 8, 2002 - 01:12 - From: Mark
Title: paint
Message: found a great website for buying touch-up paint, www.paintscratch.com  for my elan, the website showed a yellow, but it wasn't the right color. So i sent in the OEM norfolk yellow paint code and ICI formula # (courtesy of Doug) and ordered a small bottle of brush-on paint. for my old ford van, they reproduced the OEM color in an aerosol spray can. both cases, the colors matched about as close to original as i could have asked for. They turned around the orders very quick also - was delivered in about 3 days.

Oct 8, 2002 - 03:44 - From: Philbo
Title: Lotus Judge
Message: Ha! Some "Judge" you turned out to be. I was one of the first (if not the first) to install the HiSpec system as the Elan braking system is quite simply not competitive with modern braking systems, and completely gives up on the track. If you try and assert otherwise you will just look more like a fool.

As the first customer, HiSpec had my car for a good few days while they tried different configurations. It was not a "one design fits all" approach. And, despite your stupid assertions, having a decent sized pad pressing equally from both sides onto a decent disc does actually make "better brakes" in nearly every case. The installers would have to be total arseholes to do a worse job than the old Elan standard items, and HiSpec are no arseholes. They wouldn't be recommended for so much clubman racing systems if they were. As for "in a matter of weeks the braking system would revert to worse than the original", care to explain just HOW this would be the case? Are you saying AP Racing calipers are no good, that the pads will fall off or that the discs will disintegrate? I've had my HiSpec gear for more than a year and it's as good now as the day it was fitted...can't say that for my "standard" Elan brakes as certain parts of those needed continual overhauling. I checked my installation minutely when I got it and my brake lines are in no such danger of fouling anything. You obviously decided to completely ignore the fact that the installation in James' case was almost certainly due to another third party incorrectly routing the lines after maintenance.

You say that words almost fail you. I wish they had completely failed you. Apart from scaremongering your post is full of FUD and misinformation. And yes, I have informed my insurance company of the change of brakes. Finally, as for manslaughter charges, I suspect that there are many more Elan drivers unwittingly driving around with zero rear brakes because the standard items are so prone to seizing. I wouldn't argue with most of the engineering work on the Elan but I really don't think that the original designers would stand up now and say that the standard fit braking system is the best you could fit to your car.

Oct 8, 2002 - 06:41 - From: owen
Title: wobbly seat
Message: Still whiling away my working day by thinking of jobs that need doing to the car! - My seat backs, driver and passenger, have quite a bit of play in it, and will rotate forwards and backwards quite a way. Is this normal? Because I have the seat adjusted fully rearwards, the back of the seat rubs against the B-post trim, and squeaks. I am on a mission to rid my car of squeaks, and this is the number 1 culprit!!

Oct 8, 2002 - 06:46 - From: owen
Title: the quest continues...
Message: On the quest for a rattle-free way of life, i'm missing a few fasteners for the trim around the steering column, between the wheel and the dash. Does anyone know where the lotus parts list for this is, as i've looked on the site and can't find it in the interior trim section, and don't really fancy going through several million tif files to try to find it. Also, does anyone have an easier version of the parts manual, or some sort of index to it?

Oct 8, 2002 - 07:04 - From: James Flack
Title: Lotus Judge
Message: These boards are a tremendously valuable resource to owners when they are used properly ie for sharing experiences and helping others out with problems which would be tough to solve otherwise. I would probably have given up on Elan ownership by now if not for them. They are unfortunately occassionally blighted by individuals who have nothing better to do than make groundless/ill-founded comments and accusations in an attempt to entice unnecessary conflict whilst hiding behind false identities. Is it too much to ask to properly read others' notes before responding to them and to identify yourself so that genuine concerns can be debated further? Words clearly failed you long before you even started writing your response as you failed to comprehend the english of my original note. Doug and Philbo have covered most of what I wanted to say so I just want to mention a few things. Firstly, Hi-Spec is a well established and reputable brake system SPECIALIST not some tinpot part-time cowboy operation you seem to imagine it to be. Is it not conceivable to you that braking technology has moved on since 1990 and that a brake specialist is able to improve on original design taking into account original design considerations and more still?? Seeing as you are a Lotus expert, perhaps you can tell me how many design changes were implemented on the Elan between the first and final production vehicles? Or was the first one absolutely perfect when it rolled off the production line? 10 years on we still see high volume production cars from the biggest manufacturing names recalled on safety grounds - the TT is a fine example. Hi-Spec correctly fitted the hose in the same manner as the standard Lotus one (to the top wishbone). In addition they have engineered calipers that not only offer LONG TERM improved braking performance over the originals but also don't require constant TLC to keep them functioning (btw it was failure of the original calipers which was the catalyst for me upgrading them). I clearly stated in my earlier posting (please re-read) that it was a third party whose unwitting misplacement of the hose was to blame. I would absolutely still recommend Hi-Spec to anyone thinking of upgrading their braking system my only concern is the coil placed around the hose. In normal circumstances it would appear that this is perfectly fine but any misplacement of the hose can be dangerous in what might very well have been exceptional circumstances in my case. My note was merely recommending that regular inspection should be made of the fitting which is applicable to every other system of the car whether standard Lotus specification or not. Ian - I will try and get some photos done this weekend (too dark when I get home from work these days). Doug - The tell-tale light did come on but after the event. I imagine that the light is only triggered by fluid level in the resevoir?? Since this was full before the event not enough fluid could have been lost until some time after the hose broke.

Oct 8, 2002 - 07:36 - From: Paul D
Title: Not breaks again
Message: Yep, I have had my car for a month now, turned the boost up fitted a bailey dump valve, all I need to do now is stop the car?... I fitted greenstuff to the front, with new sliders as oneside was seized and flushed the system with new dot 4 fluid. 300 miles later, Its still not right, they must be better than this, I cant lock the breaks, the first part of the peddle feels fine then it seam to hit a hard wall, Its slows down well but from other cars I have had it is not up to scratch, The back pads need changing (look like they have seized), do you think this will help with stopping. or is it the Master Cylinder ( i hope not it costs a bomb). Thanks...I have done all the above jobs from info on this site. Paul

Oct 8, 2002 - 08:04 - From: Andrew
Title: Brakes
Message: Hi Paul. My brakes work in exactly the same way as you mention. My local Lotus garage have told me that the front calipers need a full over haul to get them anywhere near where they should be. With this in mind I am going to go for the Hi-Spec solution later, probably early next year. From what I have heard/established the master cylinder is the problem with this system, the main culprits are the front calipers, as they do most of the work in the Elan.

Oct 8, 2002 - 08:53 - From: Dave M.
Title: master cylinder
Message: When researching my current braking system, I read that some felt the master cylinder wasn't up to the task of supplying enough pressure to lock the fronts. While it may be the case with OEM sized pads, this is not totally true (at least with a MC that is working properly). I can lock at will with various types of pads. For the record (so I don't fear the rath of any attorneys), my brakes are stock Lotus calipers running stock Lotus pads. I just had an AP Racing caliper housing made to fit over the whole thing. Kinda like "rice" for your brakes. ;) PS- got my computer cable yesterday and will have it wired by the weekend to test things at the track!

Oct 8, 2002 - 09:19 - From: Paul D
Title: Caliper
Message: Is there a kit to overhaul the caliper, or is it worth getting exchanged ones.

Oct 8, 2002 - 09:24 - From: Philbo
Title: Reconditioned calipers
Message: Paul, you can get reconditioned ones (try SJ Sportscars in the UK) but they cost £100+ each for the rears and I'm guessing more than that for the fronts. At that sort of price I'd really suggest going for the HiSpecs, it's a bit more money for a LOT more result.

Oct 8, 2002 - 10:54 - From: Darren
Title: Reconditioned calipers
Message: Very apt thread as the man at Paul Matty's has just advised me that one of my front calipers needs a rebuild, so I've just this minute checked and SJ do a reconditioned front for £52 (+VAT I think). So I can get the stock fronts rebuilt for £140, plus circa £60 for new slotted rotors, circa £40 for new pads, £30 for braided hoses and £7 for Dot5.1 or opt for the HiSpec kit at circa £460 + fitting/VAT. I've got a bit of time to think as the red rocket will be spending the winter months in the garage. Dilemma, Dilemma.

Oct 8, 2002 - 11:08 - From: Darren
Title: Reconditioned calipers/HiSpec Prices
Message: These are the latest HiSpec prices - "" On standard 15" wheels we can offer a 275x24 Billet 4 Kit. The ‘Billet 4’ Kit comprises of: 2 x Cross-Drilled or Grooved Discs 2 x Hi Spec ‘Billet 4’ Calipers 2 x Mounting Brackets 1 x Hardware Pack (all nuts, bolts etc required to fit the kit) This kit costs £420 + VAT Braided Hoses cost £15 per line DOT 5 Fluid is £6 per ltr Fitting costs are £30 per hour and a front kit takes an average of 3-4 hours. Kits do not include pads, as an estimate EBC Greenstuff pads (ideal for fast road use) cost £33. ""

Oct 8, 2002 - 12:03 - From: Mike Lane
Title: Elan Brakes
Message:

Just an introduction I've owned a number of cars from Lotus over the years, an original Elan S3, an Excel, an Esprit GT3 and two M100 Elans. The first having been comprehensively crunched at just less than a thousand miles by a Volvo driver not knowing the limits of his vehicle's performance, the second still going strong at 160000 miles alongside the GT3. I currently work as a freelance design engineer but my background over the past twenty three years is almost exclusively in the brake system field. Previously I have worked as a development engineer for a number of brake manufacturers and more recently on anti-lock and traction control systems at Ford and Jaguar. Seeing the conflict of views on here I feel I must offer my opinion. Despite the preaching from writers in the performance car press and to some extent posters on here the simple expedient of bolting bigger calipers and discs to the front of a vehicle is no guarantee of better performance, for sure you might generate more torque at the disc but that has to be in balance with that generated by the rear and the tyre-road interface has to have enough mechanical grip to ensure inadvertent lock up is not a problem. From what I recall from the Service Notes the Elan went through about three or four changes in the braking system to alter the front - rear balance. This balance under heavy braking is actually quite critical and you can get a feel for what the designer was ultimately trying to achieve by looking at the progresive change in response curves of the proportioning valves, something that incidentally very rarely makes it into the public domain. There are lots of design parameters that can affect the performance of the brakes both initially and when subject to wear. What might at first seem like a compromised factory fit braking system may well have been done for very good reasons besides the obvious that people seem to jump for - saving money. By apparently improving one area of performance you can inadvertently cause problems in another. In simple terms the direct replacement of a caliper of differing mechanical dimensions without a change to the proportioning valves and / or master cylinder could, in some circumstances, be dangerous. You might only find out about this under extreme conditions, exactly the situation where you need to know before the event exactly what the brake system will do. An end user might try to test the system with a few rapid stops and it would appear ok on a flat road, but change that to an incline, an adverse camber or with partial rear wheel unloading and you could have a brake inbalance that leads to a loss of control of the vehicle. Without looking at the Hi Spec design in detail and comparing it against the original caliper it would be difficult to criticise it and from what has been said it would appear to be a competent design. But the system needs application engineering to make even the best design fit for use. If the caliper is, as I believe it to be, an off the shelf design that 'fits all' then the caliper could introduce unwanted nuances into the braking system and in extremis possibly compromise the upright integrity. For instance the cylinder area and swept volume of the caliper may differ significantly from the original causing balance, feel and wear problems. The quoted example from the 'Judge' of the F1 caliper not being suitable for road use is actually true. All too often brake systems are incorrectly specified in the aftermarket. A few weeks service on the road in the wrong environment could easily see the F1 caliper braking system degrade to the point at which it was worse than the standard road caliper in every respect, maybe to the point of total failure. What might be exceptionally good on the track is, in almost all circumstances, not suitable for extended use on the road. The standard system is not quite right in my eyes, but despite my background [maybe in spite of !] I see no reason to fundamentally change it as it is perfectly suited to road use and the occasional track day. Sliding caliper systems are not perfect by any means but regular use and more importantly the use of correct lubricant on the slide pins makes a huge difference to performance. I have, however, moved away from the original front pads to a modified compound pad from my former employer for two reasons. One the original Lotus front pads lack initial feel and progression in slow speed situations and two, I get them cheap via an old colleague. Mike Lane

Oct 8, 2002 - 12:32 - From: Doug
Title: brakes
Message: Mike, so then it appears you are the 'judge', though you never admitted it??? Well if so then it is much better to just post as you did now. Interesting how you and the judge share the same post formatting skills? I will point out that the brake parts on the Elan are, well, ALL G.M. "off the shelf" parts! I'm sure extensive design changes went into transforming Astra brakes into Lotus parts; and those rear calipers, well we all heard about the class-action lawsuit in the US about them a few months ago. Surely, there is more about brakes that I don't know than that which I do know, but still with the knowledge I have I feel even I can design a better front brake set-up than the OE one! It is all just physics: pressure, flow, friction, area, torque, heat, etc. Interesting how the AP upgrade kit pads are the same or maybe smaller than the OE pads too. Here I'm sure the evenly balanced clamping force of the 4 pots is plenty the reason they work so much better. If you honestly think that Lotus did any more Elan brake development than slapping on some "off the shelf" G.M. parts and then test driving around their circuit to test them out, then you are naive in your wisdom. Please remind us about all the factory support to us Elan owners and all the great performance parts developed to enhance our cars by Lotus. All that said, welcome to the site and it looks like you may have some valuable info to pass on.

Oct 8, 2002 - 13:10 - From: Lotus Loopy
Title: brakes
Message: Not even close to the mark Doug, the real Judge would never reveal their true identity. To keep this almost on topic the front calipers might at first glance have the appearance of a standard GM offering but they aren't. You already have sufficient information to hand to discover that for yourself. There is lots of good info in Mike's posting though, but I do know he's not been near the M100's braking system other than as an owner. Mike, we met once at SIEPG if you remember? '87 or '88 BTD?

Oct 8, 2002 - 14:06 - From: Doug
Title: waste of time
Message: Mike, sorry about the accusations, but the similarities and timing is still interesting. And to the other, I don't think we care what you have to say.

Oct 8, 2002 - 15:00 - From: stephen reid
Title: different brake story
Message: thanks for the advice philbo but in the end i decided to go for a pair of sports/grooved discs, greenstuff front pads and a s/s braided hose kit. i bought it all from www.christopherneil.co.uk (both online and over the phone). they were very helpful and the whole lot cost £177 inc vat and post to paisley. my local garage fitted the kit and now my brakes are great. they feel more resposive and progresive now and much more confidence inspiring than the standard. now that it can stop faster i can turn my attention to making the car go faster. cheers, stephen. ps. does anyone know if lotus ever made a boot lid mounted luggage rack like the ones i have seen on the elise, problem is i can fit my snowboard in. cheers again stephen

Oct 8, 2002 - 16:40 - From: Philbo
Title: Brakes
Message: Mike, I bow to your superior experience, although I was taking contention with the fact that an AP Racing kit would degrade within weeks rather than an F1 braking setup. Obviously the F1 braking system isn't appropriate.

However I would be really interested to understand exactly how a braking system that provides better feel, more stopping power and less fade could be so compromised. What are these limits that would cause it to suddenly behave so much worse than the standard items? And I would like to understand how a "better" system would degrade to be worse than the originals. What engineering aspects are involved?

Oct 9, 2002 - 00:15 - From: Joshua Lawrence
Title: Annonymous blowhards...
Message: Doug, as I sent you the info last year, the calipers are IDENTICAL to the models I listed! (IE, Pontiac Lemans 2.0 GSE....rears to countless others) I have had them side by side, and in fact the ONLY way I was able to match them up with a U.S. model is by the CASTING NUMBERS stamped into the caliper itself! Further, the slider pins as well as the piston are EXACT matches. There is NO difference whatsoever! This guy is (as usual) a blowhard trying to look smart. Incidentally, doesn't AOL give you control over IP addresses & access? Joshua Lawrence

Oct 9, 2002 - 04:33 - From: Steve P
Title: Postings
Message: Guy's I think it's important that boards such as these allow for "open" discussion - otherwise you just end up with a core of regular posters and informed progress is slow! Anyone with engineering experience should be welcomed with open arms, particularly when they are prepared to put time and effort into an informed posting such as Mike's. I've recently carried out a complete overhaul/replacement on my cars standard calipers and have to say the brakes are really quite effective - once they are working properly! I checked through the braking efficiencies using the MOT results on all the cars I've owned and the Elan is now as good as or better than them all (Opel/Honda/Mazda/Mitsubishi).

Oct 9, 2002 - 04:55 - From: Steve P
Title: "Standard"
Message: Just to clarify "Standard"! Standard system with the exception of EBC front discs + Greenstuff pads - they do push up the braking efficiency.

Oct 9, 2002 - 05:07 - From: Owen
Title: brake debate
Message: I'm not against people modifying their cars, and i don't want to antagonise anyone who has done so, but I think Mike Lane made an important point - a braking system is designed as exactly that - a system - and changing some components will affect the operation of other components within that system. Doug, I really don't want to offend, but if you think that the extent of Lotus' brake design was to "slap on some off the shelf GM parts and drive it round a test track" then I don't agree - just because a part was chosen off the shelf, doesn't mean it isn't ideally suited to a different application. For instance, the front calipers were probably taken off the UK Astra GTE because of both cars being of similar weight (Elan 1020kg, Astra 1032kg). To tailor the system to the weight distribution of the Elan, the brake proportioning valves would be designed accordingly, taking into account the rear braking power available. So any changes to the front brakes is immediately going to upset the braking balance of the vehicle. I think to slag off Lotus for simply "slapping on GM brakes", and then to advocate massive aftermarket calipers without considering their effect on the remainder of the braking system, is slightly hypocritical. I'm certainly not saying that the original braking system is great, but I personally would not attempt to alter it without considering the system as a whole. By the way, I have a degree in Automotive Engineering, so am not just talking out of my @rse just to fuel this argument! (but it does pass the time!)

Oct 9, 2002 - 05:12 - From: owen
Title: Steve P
Message: just read Steve P's message, and agree entirely - the stock brakes are actually pretty powerful. The fact that people have complained about poor feel (assuming that their system is working optimally, as steve suggests) is probably more an issue of servo assistance as opposed to caliper design. I think this is exacerbated when comparing the Elan with new cars, which in some cases (in my experience the Alfa 156 is a good example) have extremely sensitive, over-assisted brakes. Whilst these brakes may feel more effective, this does not necessarily mean that they will stop the car any quicker.

Oct 9, 2002 - 05:17 - From: Darren
Title: Rear Brakes
Message: Joshua, I'm trying to track down the donor origins of the Elan rear brakes and would be interested in your findings i.e Pontiac Lemans 2.0 GSE. I also read somewhere that they could also be off a '87 Chevvy Lumina or a GM "wide body" (what ever that is). Mine will need an overhaul next year and I was wondering what my options are open to me, as the man at Paul Matty advised me that the only repair kits he can get hold of are from Lotus directly and we all know what their mark up is. Also, I noted that SJ's rear re-build price has gone up to £106.12 + VAT.

Oct 9, 2002 - 05:26 - From: Alan
Title: Contradictory opinions
Message: I'm with Steve P on this. I think people with opinions or thoughts against the general trend of the group should not be discouraged - especially if they have relevant background/experience. The fact that some of these postings also come with a payload of petty sniping perhaps does more to detract from the poster's message than anything else - its easier to ignore an unpopular opinion expressed in that way. Brakes ARE kind of important. Last time I was having my own troublesome (stock) brakes examined at Foulds Motors I had a chat with Chris Foulds about the Elan's brakes and he reckons that well maintained they are good brakes - even for track days - and he doesn't fit any upgrades (although I have sent him details of the Hi-spec brakes for his perusal). Having said that my standard brakes are being nothing but trouble (new front discs & brake piston (front offside caliper sticking), another new brake piston (the seals went on the replacement - went back to the manufacturer as faulty), new rear calipers are required soon as the handbrake is past maximum adjustment, scraped through MOT with pull to right (probably shouldn't have, its lethal under heavy braking) so its back to Foulds Motors.

Oct 9, 2002 - 05:50 - From: Jeremy
Title: The Judge
Message: I could be wrong, but if my hunch is right, Isuzuperformance arent too busy at the moment.

Oct 9, 2002 - 07:39 - From: James Flack
Title: Can of Worms
Message: Starting to wish I'd kept this brake experience to myself!! I hope, and believe, however, that despite the heated debate it ha caused it was correct to post it since its purpose was to make people a little bit more informed about Elan. I appreciate Mike Lane's posting 100% - it is his opinion and he is willing to identify himself to allow follow-up discussion to take place. I come to this board to learn as much as I can about the car I drive and postings, whether based on opinion or fact (as long as they're constructive), allow and help me to do that. There will always be people who want to upgrade the car and others who don't and I think this is fine so long as they respect and appreciate each others opinions and support each other in Elan ownership. Back to the debate then! I would argue that unless the driver has tested the standard car to the limit he cannot know exactly how the car is going to react in an on-the-limit situation anyway, and thus the situation is similar with upgraded brakes. Drivers should always ensure that they drive within their own and their car's limits and should assume the responsibility of appreciating the differences upgrades make by testing the new setup of the car thoroughly. I recall having seen a number of postings of potentially dangerous on-the-limit characteristics encountered in completely stock cars. These may be deemed perfectly safe characteristics to a manufacturers test driver under optimum conditions (of vehicle components) but they are inherently made dangerous by driver (in)experience and the age and condition of all the components on the car. Also, I believe that the brake balance is little altered with higher performance front brakes because the balance is so biased on the Elan anyway. This is particularly true of my car where the rears develop considerably less than the 30% force (or whatever the exact figure is) that they are meant to (without adverse side effects I should add). I would also like to point out that Hi-Spec do not just develop brakes for the track and them sell them to customers for road going cars (the F1 brakes example). Hi-Spec adapt their racing caliper design for the road taking into consideration such factors as the need for proper dust sealing to ensure that performance doesn't degrade over extended periods of time. BTW, I've discovered Mr 'Lotus Judge' had a posting in the August 2002 archives (on brakes again) as Mr 'Lots of Trouble' - look for the phrase "words almost fail me" in both). Could this be a lead to discovering his identity?

Oct 9, 2002 - 07:55 - From: Philbo
Title: Brakes
Message: As most reasonable people do, I welcome informed information and opinions. And, without gainsaying anything that is said about the engineering aspects of the Elan standard system, all I can say is that my experience of the standard system (which was well maintained and fully operational) over the years is that it pales by comparison to the HiSpec setup I have now. Stopping distances are far shorter, with a more positive feel and they don't fade. I have photographic evidence of what a hard track day did to the standard system, and it isn't pretty. It just isn't up to the task of hauling down a 1 ton car from speed repetitively - end of story. I drive my car pretty hard (in safe, off-public-road areas) and have yet to come across any deficiencies in my braking setup.

While I fully accept that a braking system is just that, and is engineered to the car (and a price), I would still like an explanation of the engineering aspects that would cause a new system to "degrade and become worse than the original items". It is just my experience that the originals performed worse and degraded themselves far more quickly than almost any aftermarket system would! Apart from that, maintenance on the HiSpec system is about 1000 times easier than the originals.

Oct 9, 2002 - 08:07 - From: PaulN
Title: Brakes..
Message: Hi Guys, Just adding my thoughts on this whole matter. I agree with Alan, having ago at each other doesn't help much, but it makes a really good read during work, and i'm sure everyone involved enjoys flexing their typing finger and smilling while having a dig at someone else. Concerning the standard brakes I don't go round like a mad man but they seem OK. Like everyone i've had problems. But on the whole the standard brakes are fine for a car with the standard performance. wouldn't it make sense though to improve your brake system when your performance is improved? And finally A top of the range Elan Cost £30k similar to a boxster costing £30-35k, how do these two's standard brakes systems compare? Not too good. So to sum the Elan brakes up "Not the best in the class, trys hard but could do better". PaulN

Oct 9, 2002 - 08:35 - From: Laurence
Title: Contradictory opinions
Message: I agree with Steve and Alan, as long as people refrain from personal criticisms and insults! This week I heard on the news that a UK company chairman is taking legal action against some of his company's shareholders that he claims have been making libellous/untrue statements about him/the company on a financial web site bulletin board! On the braking front, quite a few folks on this board seem to have modified cars (with much increased power output) that get regular and hard track use. I think it's understandable that the standard braking system and pads are not necessarily going to be optimised for this kind of use. Laurence

Oct 9, 2002 - 09:01 - From: Darren
Title: While we're on the subject of brakes.
Message: For starters, good wholesome conversation never hurt anyone and I agree with the majority that personal attacks should be performed off line i.e via email. Now, I was wonder if you engineering techies could answer a question for me, I've been looking at the Hi-Spec upgrade for sometime but have been waiting for my current system to give in before shelling out. My concern is more to do with fluid capacity i.e the current master cylinder is an Elan specific item (?), the front calipers are single piston, so put simply, is there enough brake fluid capacity to operate four pistons ? Ok the four pistons are physically smaller than the single piston but do the four use the same capacity as the one and if not could this be a problem ? I'm not an expert, hence why I'm hanging around this site for answers. BTW great site, great people, don't lets spoil that. Darren.

Oct 9, 2002 - 09:02 - From: Dave M.
Title: good discussion!
Message: Just for the record, the AP kit I have is a road kit with dust seals. Thanks for the info Mike, and glad to have you on board. You make a good point about the braking system, and I think that "system" could be expanded to include the suspension, tires, etc. The Elan has a soft, compliant, yet sporty suspension. This is great for a comfortable ride and spirited handling, but when pushed, rolls heavily. The front end dives pretty good under braking, too. This suspension behavior has to be taken into account in the brakes. The serious weight transfer necessitates a lighter rear bias or the rears would lock under the unweighting. One of my goals is to firm up the suspension with some higher spring rates and install an adjustable proportioning valve for track use. To me, the fact I've gone through 6 sets of front pads and am still on the stock rears indicates a design and performance compromise (my rears have been tested and operate properly, BTW). Will I affect the car's wonderful balance and forgiveness in doing this? Most likely. Will it improve? I won't know until I try. Then you all will know. As for tires, the AP kit works wonderfully with the sticky Kumhos now. The locking threshold is much higher now. Again, one "system" change affected others. My dive is worse and I needed new tires to appreciate the brakes. I know there are those against upgrading to the extent some of us have. For the road, it *is* overkill and would hurt braking performance in some instances (if I left my track pads on for the street, for example). I still say for strictly road, get the calipers rebuilt, use the stock rotors with Greenstuffs, and you'll be very happy. However some of us use our cars in ways the systems weren't engineered for. No wonder the systems fail, and in turn we make compromises. Frankly, I'll never go back to stock brakes (on either of my cars)...but that's my experience. More power to everyone else as it provides us more options and testing of what does and doesn't work. Now if you'll pardon me *Dave steps down from his turn on the soapbox*, I have some Lotus butt to kick at the track this weekend. ;) Should be interesting to see how my times improve as it's the first track I've been back to since the power and brake improvements. I should be near 20 psi, too!

Oct 9, 2002 - 09:08 - From: Dave M.
Title: fluid capacity
Message: Darren, good point. Someone may correct me, but I think there is plenty of capacity. I ran my front pads down to nothing (not by choice, mind you) and found even with all 8 front pistons fully extended, there was still fluid left in the reservoir. As long as that's the case, I can't see any problems.

Oct 9, 2002 - 10:06 - From: Matthew Welsh
Title: brakes, identity
Message: My car has not even rolled up 30k miles yet. The brakes are functioning perfectly with original pads, etc. I have Greenstuff pads waiting in the wings for when replacement is due. Based on my car's condition I am in a position to comment on the original braking performance of the Elan. To call the stock brakes "powerful" is laughable. The brakes on my Maserati were powerful, the 300Z was very good. The Triumph TR8 was adequate. The Elan's brakes remind me of the brakes on my old 1973 Mazda RX-2; you achieve maximum braking and then "float" to a stop. I too welcome any & all opinions, as long as the individual is willing to identify themself. My grandfather was mayor of a small town called Kearney, Nebraska. In the 1930's the Klu Klux Klan applied for a permit to have a parade down main street. My grandfather agreed as long as they did NOT wear their hoods. The Klan was very powerful then, and he lost the next election over that issue. Nevertheless I still agree with him. You stand up as a man and take your shots. It is just the right thing to do. Thanks everyone for your input.

Oct 9, 2002 - 10:31 - From: Matthew Welsh
Title: just a question
Message: What is the price of Bill Sun's pre-cat eliminator?

Oct 9, 2002 - 13:14 - From: Steve P
Title: Brake Efficiency
Message: I think it's all too easy to rubbish the standard brakes because their performance fades quickly as the components age. All our cars are at least 6 years old(?) and most a lot more! The bottom line in this is how many kgs of force can the braking system generate relative to the cars weight. Obviously if you're doing track days cooling becomes an issue and the standard system is just not going to cope, that said I've done quite a few track days over the years and providing you keep things sensible and don't bake the system it's OK. Guess I'm not quite in Philbo's league yet ;-) Anyhow, what I'm trying to get around to is this: The standard system gives good efficiency figures 80-90%, now are we saying that modern cars give a much higher figure??? Having driven some of the newer generation cars I find the bias (as others have mentioned) towards high servo assistance on models such as the Audi A4 and Volvo S60 difficult to control in a progressive manner - sometimes you only want to skim off a few mph, not thrust yourself towards the screen at high negative G! It's interesting that the early reviews of the Elan were very complementary about the cars brakes - even a second hand car article I found in a 1997 CAR magazine comparing a used Audi RS2, Elan S2, Merc SEC AMG'd and Porsche 968 Club Sport said this (and I'm not kidding) - "With added miles the brakes have got better too, moving from mush to munch. They're terrific." Now in making this point I'm not trying to defend the brakes - when they are below par they're simply not up to the job and if left unattended can be dam right dangerous - however unless you are doing track days on a regular basis they are in my view nicely matched to the car and give the progressive braking characteristic you'd expect of a sports car. To finish off, the conclusion of the CAR article - "What would I choose? I'd go in search of a Lotus. But I might just come back with a Benz"

Oct 9, 2002 - 13:40 - From: Philbo
Title: Brakes (what else)?
Message: There is another UK owner who did a lot of track days and who used to contend that the brakes were fine and he couldn't see what I was on about when I said that the brakes weren't up to track days. Then he installed a MBC and straight after his next track day ordered the HiSpec gear as suddenly his brakes couldn't cope! Again, I just have to say that my experiences of the Elan standard system was simply that almost any modern car could outbrake it. Under heavy braking, after the initial bite they would bleed off speed gradually until coming to a gradual stop, rather than really losing the speed. I came quite close to rear-ending perfectly ordinary hatches (not even "hot" ones) simply because they outbraked me. Maybe it's because my car's been modified, but I would be scared witless to be driving around in my car now with the stock system.

Oct 9, 2002 - 14:07 - From: Matthew Welsh
Title: Phil's comments
Message: Here, here Phil. I take extra precautions when driving the Lotus because the car in front of me CAN stop faster than I! Which means I try to leave a cushion or have a means to steer around the other cars. Everyone judges anything based on their other experiences. When I find myself changing my driving style based on a car's brakes that is a major statement! I am hoping when I install the Greenstuff pads (front & rear) I will notice a major improvement, but only putting on 3 or 4 thousand miles a year it might take quite a while to wear the original pads out! Also, as the car does not pull or do anything else undesirable I am loath to mess with the brakes just yet. I am an intelligent interface (YES I am!), and adjusting to the machine is sometimes easier... this from a guy who's made other major mods! What an enigma, eh?

Oct 9, 2002 - 17:08 - From: Don Ferrario
Title: master cylinder capacity
Message: Darren: I have just finished installing Dave Turner's brake kit which uses Wilwood calipers/rotors. As noted previously, my rotors are slightly larger than those HiSpec is normally using, and required a lot of fitting to get them to go inside the stock 16" USA wheels. I am quite familiar with the AP Racing calipers commonly used, and the AP and Wilwood are quite similar. I haven't seen the HiSpec in person, but from photos and description, I am sure all three of these are of similar capacity and fluid volume. (I said similar - not identical - so unnamed contributors, please keep a sock in it)

Anyway, I too shared the concern about master cylinder capacity. We're going from 4 pistons (2 front/2 rear stock) to 10 (8 front / 2 rear). I don't know the amount of fluid each one takes, but it seems reasonable that the new system would require more fluid, for a given amount of piston movement.

In setting up the new system, we did have to work with the bleeding to get every last bit of air out. Of course, you always want to do that, but we had to do it 3 times, to get it right. When bleeding the Elan's brakes, you *must* work the parking brake lever several times to position the rear pistons. If you don't, you won't get a hard pedal (don't ask me why I know this). It's in the service manual. You always read that, don't you?

The result is exactly as we both expected - that is, the brake pedal must travel slightly more before contact is made. It isn't a large amount, and when contact is made, the pedal is good and hard. You get used to the feel in 2 minutes of normal driving, and thereafter don't think anything about it.

So, the short answer is that yes, the stock master cylinder has plenty of capacity. In testing the system, and bedding in the pads, this thing will *really* stop! In a full-on stop from 100mph, the Elan feels like a boat anchor went out. You better brace your body against something in the car. With the weight transfer to the front, there is absolutely no tendency to lock the wheels. In my maximum effort tests, the rears actually would lock first, only because the weight transfer was so great. Regardless, the stopping distance is greatly improved - at least equal to any other street car I've ever driven. I don't normally use my brakes hard - this was only to test.

I'm leaving tomorrow on a 2,000 mile road trip with the Elan, so I'll have a better long term road test when I get back, but for now, I can't imagine any negative side effects. Installation was *not* easy, but only because Dave Turner's previous customers used aftermarket wheels with more clearance. Kits that he ships in the future will include the spacers I ended up using, which will fit the stock wheels, or others.

And, yes, the hydraulic brake line is attached to the upper suspension arm, as original!

Oct 9, 2002 - 17:21 - From: Doug
Title: starting to get tired of brake talk
Message: i can remember vividly how poor my brakes performed from the day I got the car used from a Lotus dealer. I used to drive so far behind the car in front of my just cause my brakes were horrible! FWIW every Elan I have ever seen damaged has front damage from hitting the car in front of it--I do not know what happened in these events but I have always assumed it is most likely due to the poor braking of the car. I agree the parts are not horrible in theory, and it is true that the Elan stopped 60-o in about 115ft when new (I have the video Motorweek evaluation). Regardless, the components do not age well and the designs are prone to getting hung up and poor performance. I was so happy to get the EBC parts in there as they gave me confidence in the brakes so I can drive normally. At the same time I agree that with the go-fast bits on the car that it is still lacking in braking ability. I do plan to address this soon.

Oct 9, 2002 - 18:16 - From: Dave M.
Title: one last bit
Message: FWIW, Dave Schmidt who raced his Elan used the stock brakes with cooling ducts (see the pics of the adjustable Konis under upgrades and you'll see the ducts). His was an N/A model.

Oct 10, 2002 - 05:39 - From: alanshort
Title: I have'nea got de power !!
Message: hi guys. Ive had my elan for about 6months now and am pondering towards a few upgrades. The local lotus dealership is offering the bbr chip for about £550 and a stainless exhaust for £600ish. I'm tempted but it seems a little expensive. I'm looking initially to get a dump value fitted. But, rather than hacking the black rubber pipe i was wondering if anyone knew of a supplier that has a nice shinny stainless steel pipe with dump value for the elan ? cheers A.

Oct 10, 2002 - 05:55 - From: Philbo
Title: Upgrades
Message: Hi Alan, check out this site for upgrade information, although a number of the companies it references (Bill's Isuzuperformance & TopEnd) are no longer in the Elan market. Also see www.informatica.zen.co.uk/elan  and click on "Staged Upgrades" for some more detail on your options for increasing the power of your car. DON'T go for the BBR kit, it's way overpriced and a Rob-C valve is much better value. Also £600 for a S/S exhaust is pretty pricey, Paul Matty do a good full system (wider bore, straight through exhaust) for £400 fitted. On my car a combination of the BBR kit and this exhaust was good for 225bhp, however you *will* need to examine your braking options (argh! I hear everyone cry!). Finally the 2 companies above that were doing mandrel bent pipes for the plenum chamber <-> intercooler feed aren't doing them any more, but Steve Sharpe in the UK makes excellent carbon fibre parts that fit perfectly and have a connector for a dump valve. All details are on the informatica site above.

Oct 10, 2002 - 06:54 - From: Darren
Title: I have'nea got de power !!
Message: Alan, I fitted a Bailey DV24 over the weekend but went the budget approach and fitted it into the existing silicon hose for no other reason than I had a spare hose, from a bag of bits I bought and the valve was second hand and came with a 'T' piece. The installation itself doesn't look too bad, as I cut a hole in the tube for the dump valve take off and then half split the hose to insert the 'T' piece itself and hose clipped it all back together. I then ran the vacuum hose round the back of the engine bay (1m will do it easily). The car went in for a service at Paul Matty's on Tuesday and he didn't really notice the dump valve until he took it for a spin. Now, a word of warning, if you don't want to get noticed then buy Bailey's re-circulating valve as the DV24 defiantly lets you know it's doing it's job i.e it off loads the excess pressure in a very dramatic way .

Oct 10, 2002 - 10:28 - From: Grass_snake_man
Title: Newbie
Message: Hiya everyone, this board has got my interest 100% at the moment (am at work and bored!) I am looking to buy an Elan SE in the next 3 months (credit pending) and had a couple of questions, same old newbie stuff, sorry! 1. What should I look for when checking an Elan over? Is there a top 10 things to check? 2. What are the tyres fitted to the SE as standard and what should they be kitted with these days? 3. Is there an Elan club of any sort in the UK? 4. What are the best resources for sourcing an Elan? Is it the usual Loot/autotrader type affair? 5. Insurance . . . I currently have a company car and have never had my own insurance before, I saw one posting re: insurance, are there anymore recommendations out there??? Cheers!

Oct 10, 2002 - 10:34 - From: Paul M
Title: BOV
Message: As a relatively new USA Elan owner, my winter project was to install a BOV. With Top End and Joe no longer the supplier of kits, is there any other kit out there? If the hand made approach is the only approach, what is the source of the valve? Paul

Oct 10, 2002 - 10:36 - From: Matthew Welsh
Title: Elise
Message: http://www.prototyperacing.com/ 

Oct 10, 2002 - 11:16 - From: Dan Giani
Title: Hi
Message: The Elise has V.Good brakes so why do not some of you trade up? Especially if you do TrackDays. The Elan is not a graet track car, to heavy says my boss who dose some racing. My boss has both and says Elan for road, Elise for track. I ave an old Esprit and the brakes no good it also give me many problem. Bye Dan.

Oct 10, 2002 - 11:39 - From: Darren
Title: BOV
Message: Paul, most people in the UK opt for a Bailey dump valve ( http://www.baileymotorsport.co.uk/ ) either the DV24 or the re-circulating type. You can either fit it by 'adapting' the top silicon pipe to take a 50mm 'T' piece or purchase the excellent carbon fibre pipe on offer from Steve Sharpe (check upgrades area) which basically replaces the top pipe and has a dump valve take off point.

Oct 10, 2002 - 13:38 - From: Philbo
Title: Elise brakes
Message: Dan, your boss is right in general, the Elise is a better/more fun car in standard spec. However with very little effort (MBC) the Elan can be made to be faster than an Elise round all but the very slowest tracks (Elises have the advantage coming out of slow corners). As for brakes, the Elise brakes actually aren't fantastic, on a heavier car like the Elan they'd struggle on track too. Brake upgrades for tracked Elises aren't unheard of. Plus, the aftermarket brake upgrades for the Elan are considerably cheaper than a set of Elise calipers would be.

Oct 10, 2002 - 15:03 - From: Dan Giani
Title: Track
Message: I ask my boss he say to tell you Brembo brakes V.Good with the right wheel and some modification. He also say wider wheel give good grip and better stopping on Track with Brembo. He race Elan before he get Elise. I try Esprit on Track it need good driver because I spin off to easy! Lot of fun but easy damage car! Sorry I write but ave no Elan. My English also not good. Sorry. Bye Dan.

Oct 11, 2002 - 01:09 - From: Dimitris GR
Title: Women Drivers
Message: Hi Guys, Let's all have a break from the brake subject... http://www.diadiktyo.net/fun/fun.php?page=girldriver  :))) http://www.minca.cz/suzuki/  :)))

Oct 11, 2002 - 02:56 - From: Mike
Title: Elan vs. Elise
Message: i concur with dan's boss, the elan is no sort of a track car, even with upgraded brakes. i have upgraded brakes and altered suspension to make the car handle better, but, although it fun it isn't a track car. however it is eminently suitable for the road. it has the ability to thrash an Elise (not as difficult as you may assume) and hold it's own with the clubman cars. the esprit won't get a look in on the twisty bits. it may be possible to radically alter the elan, however the drivetrain setup and the weight are the limiting factors. the correct tyre pressures make a very significant difference. the Elise is no sort of a novice's car on the limit. good at slower speeds, fun, but pretty delicate on the limit. the big difference is that there is a lot that can be done to the Elise and it's only limited to the size of your racing budget. we have a few ferociously fast Porsche beaters in Oz which can be put together and stay in one piece with the right amount of money spent. the esprit can be made fast, but it's a big ticket item and it ain't much of a ride.

Oct 11, 2002 - 03:56 - From: Philbo
Title: Not really Elan vs Elise
Message: Don't want this to become an Elan vs Elise thread, the cars are too different. IMO: Elan=very fast road car, can be made to be an OK track car, ultimately limited by FWD and weight distribution. Elise=good fun drivers car, not great on road, subject to snap oversteer making ultimate on the limit fun less obtainable. The main "problem" with the Elise is the K series engine, IMO. Yes it's incredibly light but the cooling is minimal. You can get to 180-200bhp by spending a few £000 mainly on head work but the engine will need rebuilding occasionally. The absolute maximum is about 240bhp with some major bottom-end work and major expense. Compare this with another mass produced unit, like the Vauxhall 2litre lump which is somewhat heavier but can be made to give upwards up 250bhp with just head work, and it will run all day long.

Oct 11, 2002 - 04:36 - From: owen
Title: comfy arse
Message: I replaced the seat hooks on my driver's seat last night - i now appreciate how comfortable the car is!! I can't believe i've been driving around with one arse cheek on the floor since i bought it...

Oct 11, 2002 - 06:08 - From: Paul D
Title: Gatso
Message: Got flashed twice while showing another turbo car my beautifully crafted lotus behind, I remember reading a few posts about the plastic number plate cover reflecting the Gatso camera, any truth in that, has anyone got away with it!

Oct 11, 2002 - 06:15 - From: Owen
Title: Speed cameras
Message: Paul - It was Chris Foulds who told me that the rear number plate cover reflected gatso flashes, which was why the revised open design was introduced, and replacement covers are not available. Haven't tested it out yet though! I have bought a second hand open design plate holder, which i was planning to fit this weekend, but you've made me think twice!!

Oct 11, 2002 - 06:21 - From: Paul D
Title: Speed camera
Message: I think the camera I went through is one of the proper ones, will let you know if I get anything back, if in london watch out for the bus lane cameras, I got a £40 ticket 6 months later, and the cameras can be up to 1/4 mile away, I still cant find the actual camera that got me and I have the pictures.

Oct 11, 2002 - 07:13 - From: Laurence
Title: Speed cameras
Message: Why not try radar detectors? They are apparently legal in the UK and should pick up the standard radar based Gatsos OK. The only problem with the Elan is that in the optimum position on the bottom (middle) of screen you won't be able to reach the detector to mute the false alarms (which will be frequent even with a top of the line unit). Laurence

Oct 11, 2002 - 09:38 - From: Dave M.
Title: boost update
Message: I adjusted the HKS pressure relief valve and it is the boost leaking culprit. A few twists and I bumped up 2 psi from the 17 I was stuck at earlier. So it apparently does open under boost as well as when you lift the throttle (manifold vacuum). Unfortunately I don't have lots more adjustment to the HKS remaining, but instead will likely just eliminate the piece when I do some sort of FMIC and reroute the IC piping (so if anyone wants an Isuzuperformance upper IC pipe w/the big HKS BOV, it'll be for sale sometime next early spring). It's probably good I'm limited as I'll be needing some additional intake air cooling once I'm over 20 psi, anyway. Actually, the HKS works as a sort of external wastegate now. The actual turbo wastegate isn't opening at all at this point but is there if something goes wrong. Two lines of defense, if you will. At 19 psi I'm seeing 1,400 F on the EGT (got it fixed - broken probe) and 9.6-10.5:1 on the A/F (still VERY rich, but safe!). It's creepy how much more headroom I've got as long as I can control intake air temps. Maybe 25-30 psi isn't such a crazy thought... Just thought I'd share the good news. I'm still geeked from driving to work this morning in the cold - top down when it's 45 degrees with my ski hat on! Gotta love it.

Oct 11, 2002 - 09:49 - From: Jose M. Armengol
Title: Brakes, brakes, brakes!
Message: My turn to climb up onto the proverbial soapbox and chime in. First let me preface by saying that I have owned my M100 for the past 10 plus years and have never thought very highly of the stock brake system. More than once I had the car taken in to my Lotus factory authorised dealer to have them look at my brakes, as the pedal never felt good and the stopping distances were too long. Several times pads, rotors and even calipers were changed under warranty or at my expense. Nothing seemed to work. Eventually they dismissed my complaints over the brakes with a "that's just the way the brakes are designed to work" (inefficiently?!). One day it caught me out on the highway when I had to panic brake. The tires never locked-up, even standing on the pedal, and I ended up damaging the bonnet slightly (paint only fortunately) as I slid the nose under a very large Chevrolet. After that I never really trusted the brakes on the car. After reading about the effects of track usage on the brakes, I knew I had to do something before heading out with my friends from the Florida Lotus Club ( www.floridalotusclub.com ) to Homestead for a track day the weekend of 18 Oct. I opted to shell out a few dollars and go with the AP Racing kit, which Dave M. has spoken so highly of. The kit arrived from B.G. Development as and when promised and I just had the system fitted a few days ago (BTW, a masterful job, by Paul & Dave @ Foreign Toys in Ft. Lauderdale, FL). Though I've yet to bed in the brakes, my initial impression is that I should have done this long, long ago. The pedal is now higher and sits perfectly for heel & toe downshifting. The car stops MUCH shorter than ever before. The pedal feel is perfect. This weekend I'll bed-in the brakes for the track days the following weekend. The only real negative is that there is SO much more weight transfer under braking, that the nose dive is really exaggerated. Coil-overs are next on the list. I will let you all know how the system works on-track later this month. OK, I'm off the soapbox... who's next?! CHEERS! Jose M. Armengol

Oct 11, 2002 - 13:32 - From: Matthew Welsh
Title: R/H headlamp motor for sale
Message: See "items for sale". This is the right hand side headlamp motor good for any M100 Elan. It will NOT fit on the left hand side. I rebuilt it using the "3-roller" rebuild kit, fastidiously cleaned out ALL the goo and re-lubed it to boot. It should last as long as a new one at less than half the price and I will guarantee it for 90-days, only because that is how long Lotus guarantees one! Price of $90 includes shipping in USA.

Oct 11, 2002 - 14:20 - From: Steve P
Title: Amazing!
Message: Just been out for a spin to Goodwood to let my 17 month old boy to watch some Ferrari's going around at a track day. Might book myself in for a drive as they had some real classics like a 911RS, D-Type Jag and AC Cobra. Ended up following the D-Type in the Elan after the instructor took it out on the road for a spin - no problem keeping up ;-) Anyhow if you know the circuit there is a perfectly smooth very large car park on the right with a tree in the center - today it was empty and I just couldn't resist taking the Elan in and giving it some welly! Could I unstick the car? I went faster and faster and all I could do was make the car slide gently - the back just wouldn't come around unless I stabbed the brakes. It's the first time I've tried this flat out (there's usually something to hit if I cook it on a track!) but today I was truly amazed just how sticky and safe this car is on a good surface (and I thought it was good before). I also tried to simulate what you guys experience with autocross - I can see how rapid changes of direction could be a bit difficult with front drive. If you get the chance to try high speed circles in a SAFE location I suggest you give it a try - only problem is you have even more confidence to go faster around the bends!

Oct 11, 2002 - 15:22 - From: Doug
Title: BOV Help
Message: Dave M and all (myself included)--just wanted to point out the BOV function you may not know about! The HKS for sure (and the others I do not know) has another port for a vacuum line across from the one we connect to the manifold pressure. Dave you should connect this as I think I will! What you do it connect this port to the pressure within the upper intercooler pipe--this positive pressure will help keep the valve closed under pressure!! You can tap a line into the metal pipe (my plan). Dave, this may help or completely eliminate your bleed from the valve.

Oct 11, 2002 - 17:02 - From: Dave M.
Title: BOV
Message: Mine valve is already connected it appears. See http://www.lotuselancentral.com/images/parts/IPupperICpipe.jpg  I need to look into this a little further...hmmmm. As I got thinking about this, I was wondering if those of you with MBCs and the HKS could actually control boost using the BOV? If all pressure was diverted from the turbo wastegate, the HKS would operate like a wastegate (and a ball and spring MBC) by holding all pressure until a given point was reached (14.7 psi, say), then it opens. Don't know if it can be dialed back that far, but since mine was opening at 17, it may be entirely possible. Just a thought...

Oct 11, 2002 - 17:10 - From: Dave M.
Title: From HKS:
Message: "HKS Standard and Racing Bypass valves are push type valves that utilize calibrated spring pressure and vacuum line pressure to remain closed against the pressurized air in the charge pipe. As the throttle is closed, creating vacuum in the line, combined with the force of the pressurized air in the charge pipe, the bypass valve pushes opens and allows the pressurized air to escape. The HKS Standard Bypass Valves are adequate for the airflow associated with engines producing upwards of 300hp. HKS Racing Bypass Valves function similar to the Standard Bypass Valves, but incorporate an additional pressurized port to aid under severe boost conditions. The Racing Bypass Valve can also be used as a safety "pop-off" valve if the second port is connected to a pressure source that does not see vacuum. For added flexibility and function, HKS Racing Bypass Valves are offered in various adjustable boost pressure ranges that are determine by a specific spring pressure." I'll check to see what (if any) other springs they have besides red (apparently lighter duty) and blue (heavier duty)...

Oct 11, 2002 - 17:32 - From: Dave M.
Title: interesting...
Message: ...what a little searching will turn up. HKS Racing bypass valve springs: 3.5 - 9 (psi) White / 7 - 14 Blue / 12 - 18 Red / 6 - 12 Yellow...also noted: "Pressure rated valve springs for HKS Racing Bypass & Pop Off Valves. Springs are color-coded for a specific adjustable boost range to "pop off" boost. For Racing Bypass vavles, springs affect "pop off" function only and are not directly related to the valves' boost holding capacity." I'm guessing that means for the Racing valve, Blue will hold more than 14 psi (which it does in my case). Looks like red may be the one for me to have. Anyone still have one from a prior replacement with Blue they'd like to sell?

Oct 11, 2002 - 18:42 - From: Doug
Title: HKS BOV
Message: There is a write-up in the LEC site about how to change the spring. FYI, The spring it came with should be noted with a dot of colored paint on the set screw. You can contact your HKS dealer to get a different spring.

Oct 11, 2002 - 19:54 - From: Mike
Title: Disney Elan Fate Determined
Message: The two Norfolk Yellow Elans at the Disney MGM backlot are shell cars-two of 6 Elans sold to Disney by Lotus for the "Honey I blew Up the Kids Movie". They have no running gear and were used as props for camera mounting, misc. scenes, etc. The other 3 shell cars' fate is unknown. However, the real McCoy is alive an well-the one car used in the movie that actually ran (it was in the scene where the car pulls up on the LV Strip). This car currently is in Atlanta, in the hands of the second owner and is for sale. This car also was the Lotus show car that ran the US car show circuit in 1990 when the Elan was introduced, so it has quite a history. The Elan was sold to a dealer in NJ after the movie and a podiatrist there owned it for a year or so and put 12,000 miles on it. The current owner purchased it in 1994 and it now has 81,000 miles with 55,000 on a replacement engine supplied by Lotus USA due to an oil leak (no dealer was in Atlanta to service it at the time so the mother hen did the duty). For pictures, details and contact info go to www.geocities.com/merk14bex/lotuselan . The documented history of the car is there as well, with a letter of authenticity from Lotus.

Oct 12, 2002 - 05:48 - From: Laurence
Title: BOV instead of a wastegate
Message: Dave, I'm not sure it's a good idea to completely stop the wastegate opening and just use a BOV. Doesn't the wastegate stop the turbo from spinning faster than you need/want and therefore ultimately extend the life of the Turbo? Laurence

Oct 12, 2002 - 06:55 - From: stephen
Title: leaking roof
Message: i've had my elan for a couple of weeks now and loved every minute of it. i have enjoyed some unseasonably good weather for scotland but now the weather has broke. it is p**sing down and i don't think i will get the hood down for at least 6 months. now i see why most convertible owners keep a towel i the glove box, my hood leaks like a sive. the water is coming in through the seals at the top of the windows where the hood seals open to allow the hood to fold. is this normal or is there anything i can do apart from wait for ntc to bring out there hardtop. cheers, stephen.

Oct 13, 2002 - 16:35 - From: Alan
Title: ElanScan update
Message: The new version of ElanScan is ready: http://members.lycos.co.uk/mcnica01/M100_ALDL.html. I've also added a stripboard layout of the interface circuit as I made it: http://members.lycos.co.uk/mcnica01/ALDL_circuit.html. Let me know if you have any comments.

Oct 13, 2002 - 21:53 - From: Dave M.
Title: track report
Message: Saturday at Grattan was awesome. After a foggy and slippery start to the day, things turned out sunny and warm. All you can hope for in Michigan in October! I finally was able to compare lap times after improvements as this was the first track I'd repeated at since all the work was done. How does 9 seconds faster on a 2.0 mile track grab you? I credit the tires big-time, but now running just a tweak under 20 psi the car flat flies. For comparison sake my 1:37 compared fairly well to the 1:31 an Elise 190 in a different group was running. I was able to run a bit faster than most everyone in my group (including a few Esprits, some VW GTIs, a 944 turbo, one Audi TT, and a particularily fun race-prepped Miata that liked to dice). Jason from the Geo Storm gang was good enough to hang on with me for a ride and his wife got some video. See the links at: http://www.kipanderson.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Kills;action=display;num=1034517474 The track gave the suspension a work out, so I'm very interested in your spring upgrade, Phil! I'm already sold on the adjustable struts from the other good reports. All in all, I'm absolutely thrilled with the car. Bugger I've got to put it away in another 1 1/2 months or so... But not before I get the exhaust fitted. Hopefully this week I can get an appointment at the shop...that should help the lag issue (it forced me to shift into 2nd twice per lap on track just to get some thrust exiting). The only regret of the track day was I didn't run in group B. There was a 360 Modena...uuhhhhh, yeah...not driven too quickly, but who cares. It's gorgeous. ;)

Oct 14, 2002 - 09:30 - From: Owen
Title: short shift kits
Message: Are the short shift kits still available? I think I remember reading somewhere on the site that they had been discontinued, but i'm not sure.

Oct 14, 2002 - 09:30 - From: Owen
Title: short shift kits
Message: Are the short shift kits still available? I think I remember reading somewhere on the site that they had been discontinued, but i'm not sure.

Oct 14, 2002 - 10:09 - From: Debby
Title: Looking For BRYN!!!
Message: If you read this and you know of Bryn please could you ask him to get in touch with me. He gave me a part number for the (Vauxhall) master cylinder and I have mislayed it.

Oct 14, 2002 - 11:36 - From: Rather not say just yet
Title: Accident repairs
Message: Hello, hope you guys don't mind me keeping my identity quiet while the insurance is sorted out. Had a major incident this weekend with rear suspension failure (I think you know what I refer to), needless to say I am now looking for a suitable place to do some major repair work to the front of my car, any could suggestions in the south you would recommend for insurance work. Thanks guys sorry for the anonymity, but please all check your rear suspension ASAP ;)

Oct 14, 2002 - 12:19 - From: Dave M.
Title: red spring
Message: Heard from HKS...I need the red spring. Does anyone have an extra or do I need to order through a dealer? PS - Had a chuckle at Lotus Judge's 10/7 post. The brakes were incredible AGAIN from 120 mph at Grattan. Even had enough grunt to lock DOT competition tires (I pulled that boner twice-I can appreciate that term "flat spot" now). Yep, in "a matter of weeks" they still continue to blow away the stock ones.

Oct 14, 2002 - 12:57 - From: robert collins
Title: Robert is a happy man
Message: 2 reasons. First the Elan passed its MOT - phew! Second, I finally took delivery of my laptop PC today. Wired up my ECU interface, booted up Alan's Elanscan and... it works!! Excellent work Alan - I owe you a beer!

Oct 14, 2002 - 15:29 - From: stephen reid
Title: hyper presuit mode
Message: evening gent's. i am planing to take my motor to AVA a tuning shop next glasgow airport. it is a turbo specialist and has a 2wd & 4wd rolling road. the plan is to stick my elan on and and see what she can do, then add a K&N element filter and a bleed valve. once fitted what kind of power can i expect, the only other mod i have at the moment (apart from the brakes) is a s/s exhaust from paul matty which the prev owner had fitted. should i fit anything else or does this sound like a good balence? P.S. thanks for the advice about the seals alan, i will try it once they dry out.

Oct 14, 2002 - 15:32 - From: Doug
Title: ElanScan
Message: Go Rob, and Bravo Alan!! I hope to get the program running myself soon (salivating). Then if you all send me your files I can post them under our names and we can compare . . .

Oct 14, 2002 - 15:34 - From: Jose M. Armengol
Title: re: leaking roof
Message: Stephen, you might want to try applying some heavy silicone to the seal. I had big issues with the front seal leaking from the left (driver's, in my case