July 2000 Message Board

Jul 1, 2000 - 13:42 - From: Tony V
Title: Timing Belt
Message: Does the Elan have a setup so that if the belt breaks, it bends the valves? I think they call that an "interference" type of engine.

Jul 2, 2000 - 05:39 - From: Craig
Title: Lotus Dealers and Gearbox trouble
Message: A quick lesson to those of us who don't fix our own cars here.....On the way back from LeMans my gearbox 'played up'. I was stranded on the M25 and had to get hauled back to where I live !! Anyhow, I suspected a gear cable had gone as the symptoms were very similar to last time (floppy gear stick etc.) I told the Lotus garage this and the next day they called me to say that it wasn't a gear cable but something more serious inside the gearbox - It was going to take them at least 12 hours labour + parts (£50 per hour labour !!). This is a total of £600 before they have even fixed it !! Anyway I got a friend of a friend who has his own garage to collect it for a second opinion - he called me to say that it was the gear cable !!!! He has done the job (including changing my brake fluid) for £150 !!!! I am SO MAD that the Lotus guys think they can just try and rip people like us off because they assume we have money to burn. They just seem to charge for doing nothing, all the time. The guy who did the gear cable mentioned that these gear cables are notoriously bad - are there any other options for gear cables rather than the normal ones to increase strength? He says that if you do racing gear changes the cables hardly last at all. Lotus dealers in the UK seem like total rip off merchants - I won't be going back.

Jul 2, 2000 - 21:28 - From: Doug
Title: Gear cables
Message: Craig, glad to hear you got it fixed well and properly. There is a write-up on the site about the gear cables if you didn't know!! You should email PR@lotuscars.co.uk and tell the PR department about your encounter. Also please put a nasty post on the Owners' Reviews board so others don't get taken by them!

Jul 2, 2000 - 22:19 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Ebay Auctions
Message: Some auctions that might be of interest. Alloy flywheel for Elan M100: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=371539370 . Lotus logo valve stem caps for wheels: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=371499510 . Lotus logo license plate: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=371513209 ._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 3, 2000 - 11:58 - From: Mike Rice
Title: Steering Rack
Message: You might recall my asking about play in the steering back in May - according to 2 opinions out of 3 I have now had, I need a new rack. A new rack from Lotus costs 906 UK pounds, plus tax which will take the supply and fitting of a new rack close to 2 grand!!! Does anyone know - Is the rack a standard GM part or has it been modified by Lotus?

Jul 3, 2000 - 20:19 - From: charlie
Title: site up
Message: www.charliex.net  is pretty much up and running as before.. don't think i missed anything..

Jul 4, 2000 - 01:01 - From: Steve
Title: Lotus Dealer
Message: Craig, don't keep us in suspense, who was the dodgy dealer ?

Jul 4, 2000 - 04:00 - From: Craig
Title: Dodgy Dealer Revealed
Message: Dick Lovett Lotus, Cheltenham, UK. I have sent an email voicing my outrage to the Lotus PR department (thanks Doug) and await their reply. I am so fed up with dealers assuming we can just throw money at our cars because we have Lotus badges - fight the system people !! I'll let you know the response when I get it..........

Jul 4, 2000 - 07:07 - From: Richard
Title: Cam Belts
Message: The UK service notes state that the Cam Belt is to be replaced at 60,000 miles or 5 years whichever comes first BUT the US it only states the 60,000 mileage. Is there something different about the US environment where by the belt lasts longer or what? What does Lotus state for other countries? I changed mine at 6 years and 30,000 miles and I'll reconsider when the next 5 years comes up as I've only done 5,000 in the last 4 years. If it's down to ageing how do you know when the belt was manufactured?

Jul 4, 2000 - 08:02 - From: Rod Little
Title: Dealers
Message: My first couple of years on M100 ownership were very expensive, it was only when I moved dealer did I realise how much I was paying, and also that shock absorbers etc last more than 12 months. PETER SMITH SPORTS CARS were telling me I needed a new clutch at 30k miles. I now know clutches last 100k +. When I complained to Lotus they just advised me to move dealers if I was not happy.

Jul 4, 2000 - 08:37 - From: Steve P
Title: Do it yourself.........if you can!
Message: My advice anyone suffering high garage bill's is to take advantage of all the useful service info. on this site and others. Get yourself the workshop manuals and potentially save thousands! Most garages in the UK are only interested in one thing....your money.....not your car :-( Most jobs really aren't that difficult, and if you decide not to tackle them after reading the 'repairs' section, you will at least be 'informed' before you visit the dealer. Thankfully I ditched my dealer soon after purchasing my Elan, and have never looked back...the car handles better, goes faster, and is cheap to run. You also gain a lot of satisfaction knowing that the job HAS been done. Here in the UK it seems the strong Elise following on the internet has started flush out the rotten apples. Dealers are already having to justify themselves on message boards! It's time to name and shame the crooks :-)

Jul 4, 2000 - 10:58 - From: Andy V
Title: Trip to Nurburgring last weekend
Message: Just thought I'd drop you all a line to tell you about my weekend at the Nurburgring in Germany. Drove across France, Belgium and into Germany on Friday in the Elan, getting up to around 132 mph [on certain stretches of road ;-)], and on arrival at the track, went straight on to do 2 laps round. I now finally understand what a superb little car the M100 really is! First solo lap and I almost trashed the car twice in 5 minutes - I was taking a bend way too fast and lost the back end, steered in but overcompensated, causing it to flip out the other way. A few corners on and took a bad line through some 'esses', caught the gravel and spun. All in all, I'm very impressed with how composed and reassuring the car felt - it was slower than some of the Imprezas and beefed-up M3s there, but it certainly got heads turning! The only problem I had with the car during the whole trip was a popping exhaust on the way home, which I believe may have been caused by putting Super Benzine 98 RON fuel in - I always use 95. I took some pictures of my '91 Calypso Red Elan which I'll mail to the picture gallery shortly.

Jul 5, 2000 - 07:44 - From: Jason
Title: Dealer info
Message: Rob collingridges elise site Will find the url & post) has lots of useful dirt on UK dealers. Makes an interesting read - especially the differences in charges for the same product/ service

Jul 5, 2000 - 13:17 - From: Ian
Title: oh shit
Message: I just went outside to get into my Elan to drive home, but upon turning the key the first time, there was a strange noise and the engine cut out. I started it again, and it started ok, but was sounding a little rough, and there was a light on (yellow one, far right, seems to imply something electrical). The car is running, but when I rev it, it burbles and wheezes and I really don't think trying to drive it home is a sensible idea. Anyone got any ideas what might be wrong?

Jul 5, 2000 - 13:38 - From: charlie
Title: Ian
Message: kinda hard to say, could be a number of things, check the ECM code as described on here (not on the board, on the site)

Jul 5, 2000 - 17:36 - From: Thomas
Title: Sigh......
Message: Guys, my driver side window got stuck yesterday. It won't go down or up. Fortunately, it didn't slide into the door panel as some of you have experienced. However, it'll still be a challenge trying to understand the write-up. Maybe after a few beer I'll be ready to go...

Jul 5, 2000 - 22:41 - From: Doug
Title: Autocross Woes
Message: Hello, all! I thought I’d post up my experience with my Elan at the autocross last weekend for others to learn from. The event took place in a huge parking lot with cones used to outline and create a course a bit over 1 mile with a running time of about 90 seconds. The cars all generally used 2nd gear for the whole course which consisted of many tight and undulating turns—“Hey, Elan territory” you are thinking—well read on! The bottom line is that I am Not happy with my/my car's performance there! My car ran fine with no problems mechanically. Its power and boost response was great and had me grinning wide. Furthermore the straight-line braking of my EBC pads and rotors was great as well with no fading, no dust, and great feel—even the 2 instructors who drove my car thought the brakes were fine without problems! Now what I found is that even with my 205 tires adjusted to about 42psi front and 32psi rear, the car was asking for more grip in every corner! The forward-biased weight and front drive caused the expected understeer. The rear tires were relatively unweighted on the course and it was hard to get them to roll-over on the edges as I wanted, while the fronts were about right at 42psi. The corner handling of the Elan’s suspension was fine, but the grip was DEFINITELY the WEAK point!! Seeing other cars slip through the corners that I was struggling to keep traction in was not fun either! As Andy mentioned, I too found the rear of the car to be a villain in disguise. Tapping the brakes while cornering could easily cause the rear end to come loose—at time traveling around 90 to 180 degrees more than I wanted!! Another annoying thing was probably caused by my power advantage but reveals another Elan flaw. This is that exiting hard right corners that unweighted the right side of the car at times caused the right front wheel to break traction and SPIN, killing my exit acceleration. This I believe could easily be remedied with a Limited Slip Differential (LSD) installation (which is on my “wish list”). So I came away with a poorer showing than I ever thought. What I decided is to point out that the car would definitely benefit from an LSD and from better (wider) tires for more grip. Certainly "racing-compound" tires would make a big difference and any "serious" racer should get a "track-only" set of rims and tires. I plan to get some 225s later this year and then I will give it another try, but until then I feel the car is not good enough and I was pretty disappointed. Certainly this only applies to the type of track situation I was on and these qualities, while there, would not be as prevalent with higher-speed track layouts. I will be the first to point the finger at "the nut behind the wheel" but I WAS giving it my all and pushing my limits. But don’t get me wrong, I still love my Elan and think it is the greatest—I just need time for my bruised ego to heal! By the way, everyone loved the car and though it looked great--too bad I couldn't show them a better performance.

Jul 5, 2000 - 23:00 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Autocrossing
Message: Driving a field of cones against the clock is always a learning experience. Shows you exactly what you can't do. I go through the same thing every event I attend. Some things that might help you feel better: You will run slower on street tires in the best handling car at the event than a Yugo on autocross tires. Don't get upset about that, it's just the way things are. On street tires, learn to slow down to go faster. If you are sliding sideways, you are running too fast. You want to drive the car just to the point where it starts to understeer and that is as fast as you are going to go without racing tires. Mashing the gas pedal down and cranking the wheel farther into the turn is the best way to drop 5-15 MPH on cornering speed. Cars roll relatively fast but slide slow. If you want to keep looking in the direction you are going, never stab the brakes when the wheel is turned. Cars stop in a straight line reasonably well. Try to stop while turning and you will be looking at where you came from real quickly. The uneasy thing that you have to do with a FWD car is maintain speed in a turn, keeping your foot on the gas. Everything in your body tells you not to but as long as the front tires are pulling the car will pull itself through the turn. Touch the brakes and you throw the balance out and spin. The only time to stab the brakes in a turn is when you want to throw the tail out to get around an excessively tight turn (hairpin or box), and that takes a lot of practice. Don't worry, they keep telling me it takes several years before anyone gets good at this._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 6, 2000 - 02:55 - From: Richard
Title: Re: Oh shit
Message: Ian, Sounds like the ECU is in emergency mode probably due to detection of CAS Hall effect sensor failure - see Doug's section on repairs. How old is the car and how many miles? You need to know the error code first but if it's Code 41 then the repair is easy - I've just repaired mine, if you want any help let me know.

Jul 6, 2000 - 04:35 - From: Mike Rice
Title: Steering Rack (again)
Message: Before my posting of Jul 3 gets too far up the stack and slips from view - doesn't anyone of you Elan experts out there have any idea about the steering rack and whether I have to spend more than a grand (pounds, not dollars!) on a new one from Lotus, or less than that on a GM part. btw - should a rack need replacement after less than 50K miles? Help!

Jul 6, 2000 - 06:51 - From: Rod Little
Title: Steering Rack
Message: Richard, perhaps we are all just hoping this does not happen to us. I have certainly never heard of this as a M100 problem. So either it is a known problem and you could probably verify this by ringing around a few Lotus Dealer service departments and asking if they have ever done Steering Rack changes ( also try independants like Paul Matey ), or . . . you are being given back advice about needing a new one, what symptoms do you have - perhaps we can then see if other M100 owners have the same symptoms, or . . . your car has had a different history to the average car. . . do you know ALL the history of the car. perhaps an accident in the past, or bad servicing where the power steering pump fluid was incorrect or low, or perhaps non-standard wheels/tyres ( going up from 205 to 225 tyres would put more strain on steering ), or has the car spent much of its time at low speed around town ( London ? ). Hope that helps as a starting point.

Jul 6, 2000 - 13:18 - From: charlie
Title: autoX
Message: don't feel down doug, at least your having a go. i guess i can say the same as bill, i was taught that braking in a corner was a no no, just get to the corner at the right speed, get off the brakes , hold the accelerator and glide around the corner as you begin to come out of the corner floor it, you ought to be moving on a straight line by then.. I have drawings and examples from my race school back in england that show the lines and points on the corners you ought to aim for, if i can find them i'll scan them and put them on my site. What kind of tires are you running out of interest, I got myelf into a tight spot last week, someone had decided that a 3 lane on ramp, ought to become a right angle turn on a blind corner to join the 101 =) needless to say i hit the corner about 70mph, the car stuck to the ground like a rail, the rear did feel a little looser but my GSDs on the back arent as good as the eagle F1s on the front.

Jul 6, 2000 - 13:55 - From: will
Title: auto x
Message: Doug, i don't want to offend you or anything. did you think about taking some classes at the skip barber school of racing. when i was a little younger my father paid for me to go. that was when he was trying to teach me that raw horse power and a big 5 liter engine was the way to go. i can't wait to put his mustang on it's ass. i will have done the turbo upgrade by the time i get back to the mainland. the people at top end performance was very informative. they told me what to look for.

Jul 6, 2000 - 17:51 - From: Doug
Title: AutoX
Message: Well, guys, I do know the lines to take and do know how to drive. I will be the first to say I am not an expert but am at least an intermediate! I did use the brakes to bring the rear around the hairpin a few times. My bottom line is that my car was not handling near as well as others I would expect to not be as good as my Elan. I was extending my limits to try to keep up. I won't go into car makes/models and times but there were some cars all of whom were kicking my ass that should not have been. My skill was good but the car was not letting me catch the others' times. Yes, the right tires would help, and of the other cars-some had them but some just had wide good street tires. I AM disappointed that other cars were sailing around corners I could not have even with a pro behind the wheel.

Jul 6, 2000 - 18:33 - From: Thomas
Title: Glove box lock
Message: Anyone out there has any idea what part # is for the lock device at the glove box?? Mine is busted... not by burglar but by me.... and my driver side window decided to go on strike this week.... sign.........

Jul 6, 2000 - 20:06 - From: charlie
Title: autoX
Message: it might be the car, but its probably a combination, when i started it, i was thinking my old 74 911 wouldnt be upto it, one of the german porsche test drivers took it out and wiped the floor with everyone =) even the RSRs, it was very cool. Then i took it out and came in last, but i was still smiling =) theres a morale to the story, but i'll let you figure it out

Jul 6, 2000 - 20:19 - From: Doug
Title: Yeah Yeah
Message: Charlie, my point is to let others know what to expect and what I perceive to be the Elan's shortcomings. If others had ever posted things like this before than I would not bother as I would have been prepared to expect them on the course. But the 225s will be next on my "buy list."

Jul 6, 2000 - 20:43 - From: George
Title: Wow....
Message: Hello guys, have not been on this message board for a while due to a large amount of family members have been visiting... :-( There are some interesting posts lately. Doug, too bad to hear about the auto-x. I think I am getting my car back tomorrow, finally... I am also buying some 225/45/16 Kuhmo from Jaime probably next week. I'll let you know what kind of difference there is. About the tail slide thing, well as you know, I spun out a while ago, which was something I did not expect at all on the Elan. The way I spun was not even because of the brake, it was a down hill turn which caused the rear of the Elan to became light, very light. I knew for a fact that I did not brake into the turn was because: 1. I was sure I did not even tap the brake. 2. My buddy behind me with the Porsche confirmed that the brake light did not even flash once. Hopefully, the tires will make a difference on traction. I also went to Vegas last weekend (sorry Charlie, did not see your post till I got back. I'll be going again probably at the end of this month though :-)) and found that the Elans are actually in Florida. Where in Florida? I do not really know. A crazy thought, Bill, is it possible that I could fit either a 1.3 Rotary Mazda turbo engine or a 1.6 VTEC Acura engine in the Elan?

Jul 6, 2000 - 21:06 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Engine
Message: Why in the world would you want to put an inferior honda engine into that car? The Isuzu engine will support 400-500 HP and its standard features are what these honda drag racers are going out and buying to put in their cars (forged pistons, nitrided crank, heavy duty rods, etc.). The difference is that the Isuzu engine is much more reliable._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 6, 2000 - 21:43 - From: charlie
Title: autoX
Message: wasnt trying to give you a hard time doug =) just relating a story. Maybe you can get a local tyre shop to sponsor you a bit for different tyre configs for exchange of a bit of advertising on the site/car and pictures, one of the miata guys i know does this, he gets to try out lots of different tyre setups.

Jul 6, 2000 - 22:02 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Driving
Message: Charlie couldn't have known how much I agree with his commentary about driving schools. I believed I was the baddest hotfoot on the pike until I got involved in autocrossing and every race teaches how much more every driver has to learn. I sign up for every driving school they have in our area and the funny thing is that the guys whose times I am chasing each race also attend these driving schools. This is not speeder school but racing school with lots of seat time which is worth the investment even without the valuable instruction that goes with the package._ _ _One thing about sponsor/advertising stickers on an Elan, with that fiberglass body, you can't use magnets._ _ _The width of the tire is not as important as the rubber compound. Racing tires aren't available in 40-45 series aspect ratio, 50 is about the shortest. 205-50-15 in a Hoosier Sportscar DOT Radial or Kuhmo Victoracer is going to stick better than any street 225 width tire._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 6, 2000 - 22:04 - From: Bob Layman
Title: AutoX & Track
Message: Based on the general driving feel of the Elan, I suspected that it might not be a good AutoX car and also wondered about lapping on the race track. Still haven't tried AutoX with it, but took my Elan to the Lotus Engineering track day at Waterford Hills near Detroit not long ago. To put it mildly, I was very pleasantly surprised at the good performance on the track (Waterford is 1.5 miles and 12 turns by my count). The event allowed passing only on two straights (by passee invitation) so getting by some of the turbo Esprits was not possible when their egos would not let them feather and wave me by. Other than this annoyance, it was fun and I was as quick as anything but the 200+bhp Caterhams with racing slicks. The Elan not only was a real pleasant surprise to me on the track, but a rather unpleasant surprise to many other cars/egos on the track (couple of Elises, many Esprits -- including PPG Pace car and Speedvision series car, and many Caterhams). With regard to handling characteristics, the Elan was quite neutral and it actually was not very obvious which end of the car was powered. Kudos to John Miles for developing in such good track manners. As a FYI, I ended the day with the stock Goodyear GSD's inflated to 35psi front, 37psi rear. Doug -- as I haven't tried the Elan in an AutoX, the following may not apply to it, but from past experience some FWD cars need a different driving style to go fast at AutoX. For example, having the front wheels as straight as possible when applying full power. And, using second gear ilo first (particularly in a turbo car) often is much quicker through and out of turns. Also, note the tire pressure split I used on the track as this might be the way to go at AutoX. Higher pressure at the front is not always best for FWD -- experiment as the self-styled experts may be wrong. I look forward to hearing about any other AutoX outings and the car set-up. If (when) I stop driving the real race car in real races, my Elan just might get to try an AutoX course.

Jul 6, 2000 - 22:39 - From: Doug
Title: tires
Message: Great to hear others' experiences with the Elan. I tried lower pressures on the fronts but they were rolling over pretty hard below 40psi in the tight turns. George, funny you mention it but I was planning to get some Kuhmo 225/45-16s. They are cheap ($90 each) and come to me recommended as "next best to an R-compound". I'd love to hear what you think if you put some on, George. At that price I figure I have nothing to lose. And Yeah I know that just tires is not going to make me a pro, but I tell you that you will see what I mean if you go to an AutoX with your Elan. By the way, there are 3 more autoX left this year at Irwindale in SoCal so let me know if anyone is interested.

Jul 6, 2000 - 22:51 - From: Jamie
Title: Re: Auto X
Message: Doug, alls I have to say is check out this link and look under A Prepared. A friend of mine e-mailed this URL about January of this year I think. He also informed me it's an M100 Elan. Let me know what you think now... http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/1999/Slush/round3.html 

Jul 6, 2000 - 23:58 - From: George
Title: Tire Pressure..
Message: This ought to be a discussion that we should get into. Wondering what are some of the different experiences everyone had with different tire pressures F/R. Bill and everyone else who races (No, not stop light races!) what are some of the valuable information?

Jul 7, 2000 - 06:12 - From: Alex
Title: Great Service
Message: Despite what Mart may say, Chris Foulds provides great service. Over the last five years Chris has serviced both my M100 and Elise. Even my brother travels 200 miles from Surrey to get his M100 serviced by Chris. In my opinion Chris, Dave and Kevin are thoroughly informed of all aspects of Lotus servicing and not once have I had any reason to doubt their professionalism and integrity. Certainly I would rather entrust my pride and joys to Chris rather than anyone else.

Jul 7, 2000 - 06:25 - From: Jason
Title: Timing belt!!!!!
Message: I saw a post here about the fear of a timing belt breaking I just wanted to say that I have a 1991 Storm GSI which is equipped with a non turbo version of the m100s 4XE1 DOHC 16V powerplant. And I know for a fact that the engine is not harmed if the belt breaks--it just strands you. I am sure this goes for the turbo charged 4XE1-WT that is in the elan.

Jul 7, 2000 - 08:41 - From: MartinC
Title: Arrgghh....
Message: For about the past six weeks now there has been a fair amount of blue smoke coming out the exhaust (tail pipe). I initially put this down to the fact that I may have overfilled with oil and the coincidence of topping up with oil and its smoking didn't make me too worried. In any case I had my big B&C service coming up so I guessed that would sort it. Having got my car back from this service yesterday it was still chucking out oily smoke. Although this wasn't picked up in the service (and to be honest it wouldn't necessarily have done so without a longer road test) I called back today and he says that it may well be the piston valve seals and will need to be tested for leakage. If this is what it is it is a big job involving taking out the engine and stripping the valves. As you can appreciate this is not the sort of bill I need after a B&C service! Does any one else have any clues what this may be? It is possible it could be the turbo but the smoke is still coming out whilst idling (and seems worse although I guess that's because the passing air doesn't take the smoke away when standing still) Therefore as I looking down the barrel of a £1500 to £2000 bill can someone give me some reassurance or do I need to start selling my body now? Thanks.

Jul 7, 2000 - 10:04 - From: Mart
Title: CF dealer
Message: CF assures me the oil was topped up not my old oil put back in as I implied CF did not fit a new CAS they fitted a hall effect sensor supplied by me. CF added a cam quietener formula to stop the issuing cam noise and did not say my cams were worn. The cas angle was misinterpreted by myself for a idle air inconsistency error on tech1. I do apologise to CF and I think I am having a bad day and have had a bad Lotus experience in all. I do complement CF on their personal service actually which you would not get from a large chain dealer I expect.

Jul 7, 2000 - 13:47 - From: Ian
Title: headlight bulb replacement
Message: Hi, I have one of the very early Elans and as such, have the earlier headlamp type. One of the bulbs has gone, and being fairly useless at fixing such things I can't work out how to replace it. I read the articles relating to changing headlights with the later headlamp version but the instructions don't really seem to apply. Does anyone else have an early elan that can explain to me how to do this? Thanks

Jul 7, 2000 - 13:57 - From: George Swetland
Title: oil Leak/rubber plug
Message: Gents, I am preparing for the 60k belt replacement, and wanted to address another small oil drool which seems to be coming from the side/back of the head. I have read about a 'rubber plug' that lives there and that is the source of the leaks. Can anyone shed some light on this. Is this an Isuzu part (number???)?. Where exactly does it go? If I wash off the engine the leak goes away for a week or so, then it is back... Have been told by my friendly Isuzu parts dealer that they (Isuzu) are blowing out their stock of old 'car' parts (belts etc. ). He is offering deals to the club on Isuzu bits! Call Brian Settles at Fladeboe Isuzu 949-830-7000. Cheers George Swetland

Jul 7, 2000 - 15:20 - From: Thomas
Title: Re: headlight bulb replacement
Message: Ian, I'm afraid you have to replace the whole unit as you can't just change the bulb. I replaced my about 6 months ago. I got the parts from topquark as in the enhancements/upgrade section of this site. It works great! But make sure you ask them to send you a lower wattage bulb for the high beam. Mine popped the first time I turned them on.

Jul 7, 2000 - 16:52 - From: Doug
Title: stuff
Message: Jamie, that autoX Elan is probably of the older series as they are still formidable track cars! George, you need to clean and then look for the leak to develop so you know precisely where it is--it is probably from the head or cam gasket and only leaks when hot which causes it to happen slowly--BTW all cars leak super slowly so it may or may not be a problem. Ian I will check the manual when I am home as it does have the first style headlight unit in it too--the best way to get the bulb out is to un-do one end of the pushrod from the motor unit and then just raise the whole light assembly up manually and get the light out from the back.

Jul 7, 2000 - 17:11 - From: Lance Johnson
Title: 2 Elans at MGM studios in Florida
Message: This story has made its way through the Lotus List a few times. The two Elans from the "Honey, I shrunk the kids" film are in some lot gathering dust at the MGM studios in Orlando FL. From what I can remember, no one has succeeded in convincing Disney to give them the cars...

Jul 7, 2000 - 18:00 - From: Steve
Title: MGM Elans
Message: The cars are seen when you take a "bus" ride trip through the back lots, you pass lot's of film and tv stuff like the blue thunder helicopter etc. From what I remember one was a real car and one was a prop, not totally sure though.

Jul 7, 2000 - 18:18 - From: Jason
Title: NON turbo elan
Message: Does anyone here own a nonturbo Elan M100?

Jul 7, 2000 - 18:33 - From: George
Title: Hey Charlie!
Message: Charlie, I forgot to ask you, are you still residing in the Bay Area or have you moved down to S.CA?

Jul 7, 2000 - 20:06 - From: Doug
Title: Charlie
Message: Chas is a mysterious guy; as far as I know he HAS moved and I think he lives in a nuclear bunker somewhere a bit North of Hollywood.

Jul 7, 2000 - 20:44 - From: James
Title: Boost cut out
Message: Are any of you guy running a MBC with a accurate gauge. It seems that I can't run over 8-10 PSI without having my engine stutter. I checked my timing, the plugs are new and gapped correctly, and my ECU shows no error code. Charlie, I know you have one. Do you have any problems running over 8 PSI? That is without your superchip. I guess I may have to install my raising rate fuel pressure regulator to see if that does anything. Any help on this matter would be much appreciated.

Jul 7, 2000 - 21:02 - From: Doug
Title: Boost cut
Message: Jamie, the injector cut occurs at over 0.95Bar which is about 15 PSI. This works off the manifold pressure (MAP) sensor not from the boost gauge.

Jul 7, 2000 - 22:21 - From: Jamie
Title: Re: Boost Cut
Message: Doug thanks for the information. However, I already knew that. I was just wondering if only my car stutters running higher than stock boost. Since I have an accurate (after-market) boost gauge, I know for a fact my car stutters at about 9 psi. It seems everyone else that is using an MBC adjusts theirs by feel until the engine cuts out or stutters, but the amount of boost is not know because our stock gauges are so inaccurate. As far as I know everyone that has and adjusts their MBC and has showing almost 1 - .75 Bars of boost before engine cut-out/stuttering might only be running about 8-10 psi boost.

Jul 8, 2000 - 05:51 - From: George
Title: Boost Cut
Message: Jaime, as you know, my engine is not cutting out any more. Personally, I believe I've adjusted to the perfect equilibrium. I think it would be a good idea that next week, when I get my car back, hook a gauge up to it and see what kind of boost I am actually getting. Thus, you could adjust your boost according to mine and see if it still cuts out the engine. By the way, I forgot to ask you about the tires when I spoke to you earlier. Hope you still have them... P.S. Boardwalk Auto Center in Redwood City, CA. IS BY FAR the worst dealership I've ever dealt with in my life. Don't know how is Ferrari of Los Gatos, any references?

Jul 8, 2000 - 08:51 - From: Bill Luton
Title: gauges and sensors
Message: Just because an aftermarket gauge is installed, doesn't mean it is accurate. It should be, but is worth checking against a test gauge. There is the possibility that the MAP sensor is inaccurate and is sending peak output at a lower pressure than it is supposed to and it is worth checking with a gauge and a multimeter._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 8, 2000 - 12:33 - From: Doug
Title: boost
Message: Jamie, I agree with Bill that something is wrong. Either your gauge is inaccurate or installed with some kind of restriction, or your MAP is sending the wrong info to the ECU. The bottom line is that the ECU is programmed the way I stated above, so if your cut-out is happening early then something is wrong. You should be able to tell physically how much boost your Elan is getting: if it goes like hell and then cuts out then you are probably getting up to near 1 Bar, but if it is just a bit more than stock then you are probably getting just 9-10PSI like you think.

Jul 8, 2000 - 13:38 - From: charlie
Title: stuff
Message: i have my boost set high, around 13 , i find if i floor it really hard in cooler temps i get the boost shutdown, around 10-12psi, its hard to say for sure as im watching the road at the the time =) i still havent gotten around to getting my new chip.. disney ? hmmm theres two people that work for disney here, and i'm one of them, but i think i got the edge since i work for the theme park division =) and i'm currently doing a ride targeted for florida, i think steves right one of the cars is a prop.

Jul 8, 2000 - 14:50 - From: Doug
Title: AutoX Video
Message: Want to see the course I was driving? Check out this video link--video shot by someone else: http://bmwclubla.org/_vti_bin/shtml.exe/index.html/map2

Jul 10, 2000 - 07:24 - From: Richard
Title: Re: Oil leak/rubber plug
Message: George, When Lotus modified the Isuzu engine to fit underneath the hood/bonnet line they had to move the Turbo from the back of the engine to the front. The changes meant that a hole in the head behind the CAS had to be stopped/sealed with a black plastic blanking plug. Over time due to temperature cycling the plastic distorts and the engine starts to loose oil. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of this part but I could find the part number if you want. I don't know if this is a big or small job, has anyone replaced their's?

Jul 10, 2000 - 08:02 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Richard
Message: No Isuzu engine has the turbo on the back, least of which the 4XE1T used in the Impulse, Piazza, and Gemini. Where did you get such inaccurate information?_ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 10, 2000 - 08:11 - From: Richard
Title: Bill
Message: Bill, I think it was someone at Lotus many years ago as an explanation as to why the hole was there. It may even be in the Mark Hughes book, I know that the standard engine would not fit the low hood/bonnet line and some bits had to be moved to make it fit, maybe it wasn't the Turbo but something else. I'll check the Hughes book tonight.

Jul 10, 2000 - 08:39 - From: Bill Luton
Title: No
Message: The only changes were use of an alternate throttle body which was claimed to fit beneath the hood (this change was not needed, there is plenty of clearance for the original), and the use of a fender mounted intercooler instead of the top mounted intercooler because they did not want a hood scoop._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 10, 2000 - 08:48 - From: Richard
Title: Re: Isuzu engine in M100
Message: Bill, So what was the capped hole for, and do Isuzu's have the same problem?, I understood the problem only occurred in M100's.

Jul 10, 2000 - 08:49 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Heads
Message: The blank round port on the end of the intake cam area of the head and valve cover is a machining slot. To machine the cam bearing seats into the head, they had to run the machine the entire width of the head, leaving a machined half circle in the end of the head. The one at the end of the exhaust cam was used for the distributor of cam angle sensor (ignition trigger), the one at the end of the intake cam was not needed and was plugged. Look at almost any overhead cam head manufactured by any manufacturer and you will find these, except on older engines they are half circles with half circle rubber plugs._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 10, 2000 - 08:51 - From: Bill Luton
Title: leak
Message: The plug at the end of the intake cam does not usually leak. The distributor and cam angle sensor can leak. To fix the leak on any of these, change the little rubber O ring on the plug or shaft of the distributor or cam angle sensor._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 10, 2000 - 14:51 - From: gary martin
Title: rear lights
Message: i have had a bump in the rear, and require a pair of lights and a bumper, are they unique to 1991 elan, any one can help?

Jul 10, 2000 - 15:47 - From: George
Title: Bumper and Light.
Message: Gary, I am going through the repair hell myself. I am replacing the front bumper and marker lights. For the rear bumper, if the damage is not too great, you could probably find a good shop that does fiber glass repair and get away with it. If you need a new bumper, then hold on to the wild ride, especially if you live in the U.S. I don't think there is an aftermarket replacement for the light. This means that you will have to order the bumper and lights from the factory, through the usually incompetent dealers. However, the good news is supposedly rear bumpers would give you less ordering trouble than the front. Hopefully everything works out well for you, and good luck brother.

Jul 10, 2000 - 16:10 - From: charlie_x
Title: parts and FLG
Message: personally i haven't had any real problems with ferrari of los gatos for parts and service, in fact they've been really good to me on the parts side, but supposedly they do charge high, the only comparison i have is boardwalk and they quoted about the same for a windscreen repair, (slightly higher IIRC) most parts they get in 3 days.. They don't have a lotus specialized mechanic anymore, but they do have a lot of factory trained ferrari guys, and i'd rather that than correspondence course VW guys, and they've done all of the repairs on my car, so they are familiar with most of the normal lotus stuff. They also have a high lotus count in there, many esprits, a few elans and one or two elises.

Jul 10, 2000 - 20:53 - From: George
Title: Thanks for the info. Charlie
Message: Charlie, thanks for the information on Ferrari of Los Gatos. I think I'll tell my guys to give them a call. I thought my car would be out of the shop last Friday, well, Boardwalk "forgot" to order some parts for me, so I am probably looking at getting my car out the next millennium. By the way, Charlie, I think I am going to Vegas again at the end of the month. Wanna go lose some money? lol

Jul 11, 2000 - 03:09 - From: Richard
Title: Re: Isuzu engine in M100
Message: Bill, It looks like I'll have to be eating humble pie as you seem to be correct. I passed on what something that I had been told without question as the source was believed to be accurate. Here's the extract from Mark Hughes book pages 106 -108: "For instance a major powertrain change required for the Elan came with the turbocharger installation. Although the Isuzu engine had been chosen partly for its compactness, the turbo version would not fit under the M100's bonnet without modification. To achieve good response on a turbo engine, the turbine needs to be mounted as close as possible to the engine, to make best use of exhaust gas energy. Isuzu's design had the turbo in the optimum position, feeding into a usefully short inlet system containing an air-to-air intercooler mounted on top of the engine, but the intercooler was the bit that would not fit into the Elan. We would have needed a bonnet bulge and an air scoop, which was out of the question from the styling point of view, says Bottomley, so we were forced to mount the intercooler down in the car's left front corner, where it would draw air through the duct beneath the bumper - this was the only place it would fit. We changed the turbo's orientation to keep it close to the engine, but the intake system takes a tortuous route from the compressor across to the intercooler, out of that into the wheelarch, through a hole in the engine bay then back into the engine. Another packaging snag occurred halfway through the engine programme when Isuzu changed it's throttle body supplier. Lotus knew of the change but details were scant until complete engines with the revised throttle body came through . At this point it ws found that the bonnet wouldn't shut. A different throttle body had to be specified for Lotus, which in turn necessarily provided another requirement for unique calibration to the throttle position sensor characteristics, on the Elan". I spoke to my local dealer who tells me that he has changed 10's of the blanking plugs and they do weep oil dependant on age and mileage. The Lotus part is A100E62945 and called a Plug-Rear Cam Cap. Doug - can you add this information somewhere so that there will be no confusion in the future.

Jul 11, 2000 - 06:31 - From: Jason
Title: Turbo
Message: What year did the elan get a turbo?. Was it an option or was it standard?. If it was optional what was the difference in price between the turbo and non turbo?.

Jul 11, 2000 - 08:33 - From: Richard
Title: Re: Turbo
Message: Jason, The turbo and NA were available from day 1 in the UK, the NA was not available in the US or rest of the world (?). The UK turbo is badged on the boot "Lotus", "Elan" and "SE" (special Equipment), the NA only has the "Lotus" and "Elan" badge. The S2's were all turbo's and badged "Lotus", "Elan" and "S2". A S1 pre production model was shown at the London Motor Fair 18/10/89 and main production started at chassis number L6101 in November 89. The S2 production started 15/6/94 with chassis number R6000. I can't remember the price difference but can look at my sales info from 91.

Jul 11, 2000 - 08:40 - From: Richard
Title: CAS
Message: Has anyone replaced their CAS and then had to replace it again?, the first failure seems to be around 35,000 miles but I haven't heard of anyone having a second failure around 70,000 miles. Are the replacement part manufactured differently?

Jul 11, 2000 - 21:53 - From: will
Title: tires
Message: ii mentioned tires once before. but i know that Nitto makes racing tires. and the best one that is available is the 555's. they are great. ED Burgenhouse (not sure on the spelling) uses them on his everyday driven 10sec 1/4 mile Nissan Skyline. For the guys who are not familiar with the Skyline. It is a 6 cylinder car that is capable of the 1000hp area. I lived in japan for about 3 years. I witnessed first han how they spanked the pants off of the 300z,mazda rx7, mitsubishi galant all wheel drive.

Jul 11, 2000 - 23:04 - From: George
Title: Skyline
Message: Will, from what I've heard, those Skylines that are pumping around 1000 hp could do 1/4 mile in 9sec. Just like what you've mentioned, they could be used as everyday drivers as well, reliably. Would love to get my hands on one of those. A real race car killer... ;-)

Jul 12, 2000 - 00:41 - From: Doug
Title: stuff
Message: Yeah the Skyline is great except for the obvious problem--it has a roof!! I've heard the Nitto 555 is great, and it is not too expensive either; it comes in 205/45-16 but in nothing wider than that unless you go up to 17 inchers.

Jul 12, 2000 - 02:56 - From: Richard
Title: Re: Prices
Message: Jason, UK prices were (UKP): 1/4/91 NA 19,970, SE 22,490, extra's A/C 1,115, Leather 885, Metallic 710, PAS 665 (standard on SE), Delivery ??. 3/92 prices: NA 20,135, SE 22,720, extra's A/C 1,130, Leather 900, Metallic 715, PAS 675, Delivery 465. I don't have any figures on the S2's.

Jul 12, 2000 - 05:06 - From: Jason C
Title: Rear bumper & lights
Message: ....added a "c" to the name as I see the no of "Jason's" is on the increase. As for the bumper, try & get it repaired unless you're ready for an insurance claim. Mine was rear ended at about 3 mph, which cracked the panel. PSSC replaced it, sprayed it, all for the princely sum of about 1000 UKP - I almost felt sorry for the guy (well maybe not)& his insurer. Rear lights are off something weird - Renault / Alpine A610?

Jul 12, 2000 - 23:16 - From: Jason
Title: A BILL!!!!!
Message: Bill do you know what happened to the storm board it has been gone for a while.

Jul 13, 2000 - 09:48 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Storm Board
Message: http://www.jonfreeman.com/board/ 

Jul 13, 2000 - 11:55 - From: Dom
Title: CAS
Message: Can anyone give me the e-mail address of a company in the US who does Cam Angle Sensors at a good price and will mail to the UK? I have tried several off the PartsVoice web site but none have replied to my e-mails. Thanks.

Jul 13, 2000 - 18:15 - From: Dacia
Title: sound system
Message: Hello all. I have been reading this board for a while and am actually tackling my first repair job this weekend (printed the headlamp fix yesterday and am going to try to find the kit this weekend). However, much to my dismay, I went to get into my elan this morning and found that someone broke into it and stole my stereo. While this was quite distressing, I now need to install a new one (luckily the thief didn't cause any other damage!). I am pretty clueless and am nervous about the headlamp, let alone the stereo. Any suggestions would be great, as well as any recommendations on specific stereos. Thanks.

Jul 13, 2000 - 18:59 - From: George
Title: Dacia
Message: I personally recommend Pioneer Premiere Series head units, Sound Stream Reference amps, Sound Stream Reference Speakers, and Kicker Solobarics Subs...

Jul 13, 2000 - 19:35 - From: will
Title: darcia
Message: i have been through about three decks. i went from a kenwood to an eclipse. and now i have a clarion minidisk. it was the best decision. by the car being so small on the inside. it is easy to store minidisk in the arm rest. i have a separate set up in the doors. they are from diamond. i am using a punch amp. and i have an eclipse subwoofer. i have not installed the box yet. it is being custom built. i will update when it is done. i love owning my elan. it is by far the best investment i have ever made. oh yeah, think about getting an alpine alarm. it has saved my elan more than once. car theft is the no. 1 crime in hawaii.

Jul 13, 2000 - 20:08 - From: Doug
Title: Dacia
Message: Dacia, Welcome to the site! Please add yourself and your Elan to the "Owners' List." It looks as though you are at A.S.U. The headlight is easy to do once you undo the little nut holding the pushrod to the bottom of the pod. Then the pod lifts up further than normal so you can get the light out from under the pod. Dean's instructions are right-on. As far as Stereos, the slot fits all the normal head units--you or the installer can get to the rear of the stereo area if needed by gently pulling the glovebox door down past the metal stop and then reaching behind the center dash area to access the wiring. Do get a good quality one so you can turn it up to hear the music with the top down without distorting the sound. But then again I remember the factory set-up is so bad you may not want a replacement if you still have it that way. Some of us are very good at getting the car apart for the other stereo parts so ask us for help before you let some novice stereo installer break the car--it is easy to screw the car up if they are not careful.

Jul 14, 2000 - 11:43 - From: Lance Johnson
Title: Dacia at ASU
Message: I have to ask you, did you have the top up or down during the break in? Maybe you should start putting the top up. :^) Now that you've joined this list, you really need to join the local Lotus club as well. The next meeting is next Thursday night. Richard isn't giving his final that night, is he? I, however, am giving my final that night, so I will not be able to make the meeting. Let me know if you want to go and I will get you the info. I also still need to show you my car. I didn't buy the blue one. I ended up getting a red one like yours.

Jul 14, 2000 - 11:46 - From: Lance Johnson
Title: Dacia's stereo
Message: Did you have the stock stereo? If you did and you want the same stereo, we may be able to work something out. I've been thinking about replacing mine because I want an in-dash CD player.

Jul 14, 2000 - 11:58 - From: Doug
Title: AZ Elans
Message: Hey, we need to get you all out to SoCal sometime for a Gathering!! Yeah, since you bring it up, Lance, I have my original Sony 7070 head unit and 10 disc changer that I want to replace, so I could let them go for a sweet deal and that would MAKE me have to get the stereo I want!

Jul 14, 2000 - 17:02 - From: will
Title: darcia
Message: i forgot to mention. the alarm i have is from alpine. with a lot of features, the most important is the infrared beams. if i leave the top down and someones sticks their hand in the car. the alarm will go off. the remote for it is a little bigger than most. bu that is because it has a small lcd screen. that tells you which sensor has gone off. i am thinking about buying the indash screen to go with the whole system. that way i can change the sensitivity's a little easier. i forgot it comes with autostart. just in case you have to leave in a hurry.

Jul 14, 2000 - 17:10 - From: Lance Johnson
Title: Torquing lug nuts
Message: When I bought my M100, I ended up with a hole in my tire in the middle of Texas. When getting the tire fixed, the tire guy asked me how much to torque the lug nuts. Well, I grabbed the owners manual and looked it up (something like 60?). The tire guy felt that it was WAY too low and that it might be dangerous during spirited driving. I pretty much always follow the manual, but I thought I would ask it here. After that, we checked out the torque on the rest of the wheels. They were way to high (somewhere around 140). As a compromise, he lowered them all to around 100. I figure that since I had already put quite a few miles on the car with them at 140, 100 should not hurt. Any input? The Lotus recommended torque is what I should use, right?

Jul 14, 2000 - 18:00 - From: George
Title: Lance, about wheel torquing
Message: Personally, I had my wheels torqued around 70lb. Also, I do have after market wheels, so I don't know if it changes anything. If you look on this site, under :"wheels" in the aftermarket/upgrade section, I believe the recommended torque is around 60-65lb.

Jul 14, 2000 - 18:45 - From: Doug
Title: Torque
Message: Have you ever heard of a wheel coming off that was properly torqued? The shop guys are so used to their power wrench that 65ft/lbs seems low--but is correct! More than that can weaken the threads, break the studs, or cause the bolt seats to warp--tighter is not always better ;-) That's why you should insist the wheel lugs be "hand tightened" or else some monkey will power wrench them up to 150lbs!! If you are worried then check the lugs with a wrench at home after driving a bit and you will see they will never loosen if done right. Carl K. had a lug on so tight that he BENT his car's lug wrench jumping on it to get the lug off.

Jul 14, 2000 - 19:36 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Torque Wrench
Message: The Isuzu cars all specify 85 or 87 ft lbs. That is not terribly tight and not terribly loose. The Elan does not have Isuzu lugs or hubs, so that doesn't translate over as well. What does is the importance of torquing all the nuts the same. Exactly how tight they are, as long as they are tight enough not to come off, is not as important as making absolutely sure they are all torqued the same. Uneven torque on the nuts (some looser and some tighter) will cause the wheel to want to work loose and it gets annoying when your wheel passes you on the highway. Cars should not come with those flakey lug wrenches, they should come with a 1/2 inch drive torque wrench, a short socket extension, and a six point socket to match the lug nuts. These are long enough that you don't have to flail yourself on the end of them to loosen the nuts, they ratchet so they are easier to work, and they allow you to properly tighten the nuts after changing the tire. Since cars don't everyone should invest in one and keep it in the car._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 15, 2000 - 05:48 - From: David S.
Title: whud I miss????
Message: Ok after falling of the face of the planet into the "startup nebula" I have returned to find out what i have been missing...The site is looking great Doug, as some of you know the huge magnetic field that my car was producing resulted in a couple of minor injuries from large domestic land barges, during these incidents i found out that there are no more replacement "american" left hand doors left on the face of the planet, it seems the american doors have a minor amount of side impact structure around the trailing edge of the door, so only get hit on the right side...the other thing i found out after getting rear-ended at a stop light is that our rear bumpers are bonded to the bumper caps and the whole thing needs to be replaced if it breaks....so whose getting paint? my shop sucks so i need to find a decent one that doesn't consider itself a boutique and try and charge me 10000 dollars....its good to be back

Jul 15, 2000 - 13:35 - From: charlie
Title: hey david
Message: welcome back =) hope the startups going better than the car experiences,

Jul 16, 2000 - 05:21 - From: David S
Title: brakes
Message: what's the biggest rotor anyone has been able to mount on these cars?

Jul 16, 2000 - 05:22 - From: david S
Title: also
Message: Doug any idea what the performance gain was with your new exhaust?

Jul 16, 2000 - 14:08 - From: George
Title: Rotors
Message: Dave, I believe the largest size rotors you could fit on the Elan is around 13". Maybe 13.5". Which rotors are you looking into?

Jul 16, 2000 - 16:53 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Big Brake Kits
Message: I'll start with the definition of a big brake kit: A kit to fit larger rotors and calipers (and accompanying brackets) to the front only of a vehicle, usually including new hoses (stainless woven). Big brake kits do not include any parts for the rear brake system, specifically no rotors or calipers. The front brakes do 90% of the job of braking and a 8-9 inch rear disk on the rear is compatible with up to a 16-17 inch diameter front disk, well beyond what would actually fit onto the car, meaning that the rear braking system on almost all disk brake cars are grossly over designed. This definition precludes my comments because the following question is invariably "What do these kits include?", and "Does that include disks for the rear also?"._ _ _I have been selling KVR big brake kits for Elan for three or so years now. Two diameters are offered, 12.4 inch disk requiring 16 inch wheels to fit over the disk and 13 inch diameter disk requiring 17 inch wheels to fit over the disk. These kits cost $2,999.00 USD._ _ _I have another company working up kits for the Isuzu cars and have provided them with sample steering knuckles for three different models of Isuzu cars. As of last Thursday, they can offer several different kits up to a 12-12.5 inch disk which would require a 16 inch wheel to fit over the disk. These kits would be priced under $1,400.00 USD. The plan has been to develop Elan kits as soon as the Isuzu kits were done, but I can make arrangements to supply them with samples of the Elan steering knuckle if there is serious interest._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 16, 2000 - 19:10 - From: George
Title: Dave
Message: Dave, are you just a night owl or what? Your postings are always around 2 am PST. lol Let's hook up next Saturday for sure. I'll call Jaime as well. Let's go grab a beer or something on Sat. night. By the way, Charlie, are you still around the area? Let's all go!!! :-) Talk to you soon.

Jul 16, 2000 - 19:50 - From: Doug
Title: Big Brakes
Message: Bill, please enlighten us about the reason these "kits" cost so much! I can find rotors for say $100/each and lets say the calipers are a few hundred each and the crappy metal brackets (cut metal with a few holes drilled in them) can't be too much. Now HOW can this add up to soooo much???? Also why would this set-up be any better than getting a bigger rotor and a nice caliper off say a Land Rover truck in the scrap yard for dirt cheap?? Or does the extra $1500 just pay for the so-called R&D?? Just stirring the pot here!

Jul 16, 2000 - 20:18 - From: Bill Luton
Title: You get what you pay for
Message: Developing a product isn't cheap. Costs of sample materials and pieces purchased from say Lotus are not cheap. Designing pieces and manufacturing them so that they are consistent, fit correctly, work correctly, don't fall off, and don't kill the driver all takes time and money. Liability insurance isn't cheap, in case, God forbid, a driver does get killed (ask Goodridge, their brake hoses were responsible for the deaths of a driver and a passenger whose brakes failed at the bottom of an off ramp in Phoenix two years ago). The expertise of knowing how to design a brake system taking into consideration for little things like matching caliper piston diameter and stroke to brake master cylinder piston diameter and stroke so that it doesn't take three or four full pumps of the brake pedal to stop the car. I don't know many people who have access to a machine shop with mills, lathes, and the full assortment of tooling it would take to make a big brake kit. These are all things that become rather important when working on something that if done wrong can result in the death of the vehicle occupants and anyone the vehicle hits. We're talking about a product that directly bolts onto the car without modifying anything, designed and produced with a level of professionalism that it will work, and backed up with liability insurance._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 17, 2000 - 00:00 - From: david s
Title: awwww come-on Bill
Message: anyone who manufactures any type of brake product (or any product period) is dealing with liability issues, there are tons of aftermarket setups out there for just about any type of car and they dont cost 3 grand, I must be missing something here, are they made from titanium or some top secret material we dont know about yet, i have seen aftermarket hi-po rotors crossdrilled and slotted with kevlar pads and whatnot for lots lots less...what about the ones you have listed on the upgrade page from ebc and chris neil, Doug?? anyone have any experience with those setup on our cars? Not trying to give you grief Bill and i certainly dont mind paying a little extra for top quality but i am not a total sucker either, it pisses me off that just because the car has a lotus logo on it people add an extra 50% to the cost of any part or service, I have been doing a little experiment lately where i call body shops and ask for a ball park estimate on a total respray of my lotus (clearcoat stripped off total respray) prices have been anywhere from 6500 to 10000 bucks, i'll call again a couple of days later and ask the identical job for a 91 corvette and the prices drop by thousands of dollars, the really messed up thing is that our cars share a lot of parts with other GM off the shelf products and we get charged extra because of the Lotus badge...this premium pricing is totally bogus and has nothing to do with liability and R&D....ahhh feel much better now

Jul 17, 2000 - 00:08 - From: David S
Title: Night Owl???
Message: George you mean that not everyone is up at 2am??? Ahhh the life of a startup...yuck! Sounds great about Saturday, charlie has defected to the Southern Lotus Club (ya traitor), so who all is left up here? I know there is another car (red) down in the monterey area, anyone know who that is? And charlie said there are a few more around the bay, maybe we can have a mini meeting on saturday

Jul 17, 2000 - 00:53 - From: Bill Luton
Title: David
Message: "there are tons of aftermarket setups out there for just about any type of car and they dont cost 3 grand". Buy one, see what it includes. To a lot of people, a kit means a box of generic parts with instructions on how to cut and weld pieces to make them fit. They assume you have your own band saw, grinder, welder, etc. Buy one, it will probably be a Honda kit, and install it on your car. Se how well a part designed for a Honda fits your Lotus. Who is the manufacturer of "these other kits"? KVR? Certainly not, KVR charges a flat rate for big brake kits, $2,999.00 if it's a Yugo, Skoda, Renault, or Lotus. How much is the KVR kit for a Geo Spectrum? $2,999.00. Feel less singled out?_ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 17, 2000 - 01:35 - From: Bill Luton
Title: comparing apples and oranges
Message: The discussion on big brake kits spurred a memory fragment that might be interesting to some here. The April 2000 issue of Sport Compact Car has a review of a big brake kit by AEM that is very enlightening. AEM's version of a big brake kit is a pair of larger diameter front rotors and a pair of relocation brackets that mount the OEM caliper farther out so that it can be used with the larger diameter rotor. No hoses, no pads, no brake fluid, no new calipers, zilch. Their "kit" contains quite a bit less than what we've been discussing here, illustrating very clearly that it is important to get the details of exactly what is being compared. Probably more important is the performance of this "kit" once installed on the car. The baseline measurements on the OEM rotors showed stopping from 60 MPH at 111 ft and from 80 MPH at 198 ft. When the AEM "kit" or rather larger rotors and relocation brackets were installed, braking from 60 MPH _increased_ to 113 ft and braking from 80 MPH _increased_ to 201 ft. This is rather interesting, this product actually increased the stopping distance from 60 MPH by two full feet and increased the stopping distance from 80 MPH by three feet. It shows rather clearly that not all "kits" are created equal and not all of them do what a big brake kit is supposed to do, make the car stop more quickly and in a shorter distance. Certainly not a good way to improve the performance of any car. Be careful what you decide to bolt onto your car, just because someone says it's the same for less doesn't mean that it works the same._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 17, 2000 - 03:36 - From: david S
Title: apples and oranges
Message: bill what's the difference between your $3000 dollar kit and your $1400 dollar kit?

Jul 17, 2000 - 04:33 - From: George
Title: Dave
Message: Alright brother! You are up just like me. The start-up life.... Well, check this out. I think that yellow Elan which crashed on 280, the owner was not the guy from Macromedia. I just saw the same dude with the same car getting on the freeway with me a couple of days ago. It was too trafficy and I was in a hurry. I was going to tell him about the little ring we have up here. Maybe next time.

Jul 17, 2000 - 07:56 - From: David S
Title: yellow elan
Message: hey Doug what was that guys name that crashed that elan on 280?? did we ever find out where that car went?

Jul 17, 2000 - 09:21 - From: Bill Luton
Title: David
Message: The KVR kit is described at: http://www.isuzuperformance.com/bills/brakesbig.html#kvr . It includes the choice of Brembo or AP four pot calipers with "Brembo" or "AP" printed in large raised letters across the side. These calipers are a premium item sold at a premium price. (By the way, how many of "these other kits" you mentioned included this brand caliper?). The less expensive kit from the company which I have not named will include a plain racing caliper that is not from Brembo or AP and does not have "Brembo" or "AP" printed across the side. There are similar differences with the rest of the components of the kits, the KVR leaning toward the esoteric end and the kit from the company which I have not named leaning toward less expensive racing parts. This unnamed company will also offer kits using the esoteric parts, but the pricing will be close to that of the KVR kits. Right now, I have been focusing on what this company can offer that KVR can not, which is a lower priced alternative that is still high quality, but not made up of the esoteric parts. Kits for the next market below from the KVR product._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 17, 2000 - 11:15 - From: David S
Title: more brake questions
Message: what are the elan specific pieces in the brake kits? what other gm cars shared the elan brakes, they were off the shelf right? Are there Elan specific pieces? just the caliper brackets?

Jul 17, 2000 - 11:31 - From: Bill Luton
Title: David
Message: The kits we offer are specific to each application they are offered for. These are not generic kits. Choice of caliper, rotor, etc., all change based on what vehicle the kit is to be used on._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 17, 2000 - 12:31 - From: charlie
Title: yellow elan
Message: no he didnt work at macromedia, he works somewhere along woodside road, doug has/had his email address i think. i tried to get in touch with the guy at macromedia , i have a few friends who work there, but no luck, theres a girl with a red elan who works at ebay on hamilton in campbell, and a guy at lucent across the street, i believe they both use FLG so maybe you ought to ask em to stick a poster up =)

Jul 17, 2000 - 13:46 - From: Thomas
Title: mini meeting on saturday??
Message: Guys, Are you really going to get together on Sat? I'm from the Bay area too. Unfortunately, I've missed the last two Southern Cal Meet. Where are you guys meeting at?

Jul 17, 2000 - 14:28 - From: Doug
Title: My 2 cents on big brakes
Message: I just have to be sure everyone understands that the Elan OE front brakes are just fine if kept in good order. I have a video of the Motor Trend Elan test showing the car stop in 110 feet from 60MPH!! Compare this figure with other more modern cars and cars with ABS and you will see my point! If you are racing for a living then by all means get the big brakes. Otherwise I recommend you try the EBC rotors and EBC pads (or other comparable good parts) and get your calipers cleaned or rebuilt as needed. This works just fine for street use and even on the occasional autocross. Big brakes on the street will cause your car to get rear-ended really fast. Not to knock big brakes but I just want everyone to realize that only a reasonable expense be incurred to get the brakes clamping just fine up front! Perhaps I'll get my G-Tech out, dust it off, and check my stop distance!!

Jul 17, 2000 - 16:36 - From: Dacia
Title: Thanks for the stereo input
Message: Hey all. Thanks for all the input on the stereo. I ended up going out of town the last three days. Hopefully I'll get it replaced and get an alarm by the end of next week. Lance, can't wait to see your elan. Unfortunately, Richard is giving his final on Friday, so I will be studying Thursday evening. I would like to go next month. If I can get into your class, I definitely will remember.

Jul 17, 2000 - 18:21 - From: George
Title: Mini meeting
Message: I guess a mini meeting is in progress. I will have to see if I have the fortune to join the drive, it all depends if we get my damn car back from the shop. The general meeting Dave, Jaime, and I will have is to go grab a beer together somewhere in South Bay, ie. Sunnyvale area; say "The Brass Rail." lol Thomas, where are you located in the Bay Area? Dave and I are planning meeting on Saturday. So, contact us if you want to meet up.

Jul 17, 2000 - 18:36 - From: David S
Title: sat meeting
Message: George, tom, Jaime, lets plan a drive also we can end up at the rail george...lol so lets figure out a meeting place, george if you dont get your car back you can be my co-pilot

Jul 17, 2000 - 22:50 - From: Brian Wilson
Title: Bad Experience with retailers
Message: I am concerned about Top End Performance and delivery of goods. My Visa was debited on the 19th June for HKS and pipe plus freight. Goods normally arrive here in Australia from US in 4 to 5 days. So far no goods and no reply to my email ! As for Paul Matty, Chris Neil and The Elan Factory - FIRST RATE SERVICE

Jul 18, 2000 - 00:40 - From: Doug
Title: Top End
Message: I heard from another friend that one of the main guys at Top End passed away suddenly and unexpectedly about 2 weeks ago. This may be the cause of the delay. I have met all the guys there and they are all honest and reliable (and BUSY)! I suggest you give the owner, Steve, an email and inquire about your order. They are a small shop and are sometimes waiting for parts to get to them to assemble your order.

Jul 18, 2000 - 01:03 - From: David S
Title: Top End
Message: Brian I too had delivery problems but rest assured that you are getting top quality stuff, Doug's right they are a small shop and like to do things right, they just are not the best on communications, would you like for me to give them a call on your behalf, send me your order number or info and I'll call to see what's up

Jul 18, 2000 - 02:42 - From: Steve
Title: "Big" Brake Kits
Message: I phoned AP Racing direct to get a kit for the Elan, they said they only supply rotors and calipers but gave me the phone number of a specialist company they endorse who make "kits" for almost any car from there rotors and calipers. This company ( BG Developments, UK, 01772 601602 ) quoted me for the biggest rotor they could do for a 16 inch wheel, cross drilled (they do a slightly cheaper grooved version but as we all know these "tick") and a large 4 pot caliper with EBC pads (replacement pads £35) and Elan brackets for about £1300 inc but excluding fitting. All you would need to add to this is a set of steel brake lines (£60ish) and brake fluid for a full kit that's basically all AP Racing (all F1 use AP and Lotus have just started to fit AP as standard to the Esprit), let's say £1500 fitted. They said they had done Elan kits before for a couple of people over there in the states and that they had all the tooling ready but would take about 3 weeks to make the brackets as they don't stock. Even with postage and the exchange rate that's way less than $3000 dollars and personally i'd be happier having all AP parts. Good point about the rear ending Doug, hadn't thought of that. I'd like the above kit but for road and occasional track use i think it's expensive overkill so i'll probably go for a cheaper option.

Jul 18, 2000 - 03:23 - From: Brian MDB
Title: Braking the bank?
Message: I'm currently checking the feasibility of fitting better brakes to my Elan. On a couple of rare occasions both with the current car and a previous Elan the brakes have let me down. The brakes would bite initially, but fail to give more stopping power with increased effort. This has happened to me with stock parts, Tarox parts and an unknown replacement rotor. When I tried to repeat the failure the failure (geddit ?)the brakes worked fine. Each car had mileage around 60-70k and the usual maintenance and bleeding precautions had been conducted. I need to have more confidence in my brakes and the front disc's now need replacing again anyway. Recognizing that the original Lotus design is typically elegant, having a low unsprung weight at a reasonable OEM cost and creditable performance when new (one magazine road test recorded 1.15g, and in response tests sent the brake meter off scale), my design parameters should mimic these qualities..... First stop (!) was to check if an unquestionable source (i.e. at the sharp end of racing) could provide a 'kit' for the Elan. I've found just one to date.... AP Racing in the UK provide parts for a kit that is on offer there. The Kit comprises of the following items:- CP5100 Alloy 4 pot Calipers CP5000 295 x 25mm (11.6"x1")Vented Discs (Cross Drilled or Grooved) Alloy Mounting Bells Alloy Caliper Brackets Brake Pads All the necessary bolts to fit. The only thing you need to do/supply is re-route the fluid hose's The Cross Drilled Disc are actually quieter in operation than the Grooved items but the Kit containing the Grooved Discs is slightly cheaper at £1010 net (Export). By the time the kit reaches me here in the USA it's cost will be in the region of $1700. Not bad value considering the quality. Sourcing similar parts from a reputable US Manufacturer and designing and making my own Aluminum Disc Bells (Hats) and Mounting Brackets I should be able to almost halve these costs AND reduce the unsprung weight. If my budget was closer to $3000 I could even consider Ceramic Coated Titanium Disc's and more than halve the stock weight.....

Jul 18, 2000 - 04:05 - From: Rod Little
Title: Big Brakes
Message: Lets not knock the work Bill does to produce very good quality aftermarket parts for our cars. There is a huge element of research and working with suppliers, however in the case of going mad on uprating the front brakes, I had heard nothing but good things about the AP conversion that dealers like Paul Matey offer for 1500ukp plus fitting. I agree with Doug however that for road use, change to decent road discs and pads, and keep things in good working order. Interesting that I was told recently to avoid drilled discs as they are weakened by all the holes and get the widest discs you can fit between the calipers with a low number of veins for venting - comments anyone?

Jul 18, 2000 - 04:34 - From: David S
Title: brakes and stuff
Message: well i have been checking prices on the brembo and ap kits also and have been coming up with 1700 to 2100 depending on who you talk to, and these kits seem to list all the same stuff so again does anyone know what the elan specific issues are with these kits (brackets?) also doug if you are worried about someone running into the back of you while braking heavily then ya aint drivin fast enough...lol...but seriously folks, my brakes are in pretty good shape but i do notice some fade at the end of hard driven days and would like a setup that stays toward the top of the braking curve...anyone running top end rotors with the kevlar pads? george are you up for a run down la honda again on saturday...just an idea meet at alice's run down to pescadero and santa cruz, grab late lunch in SC then head to catch some drinks at your brass rail place after zipping over the 17...any other ideas guys

Jul 18, 2000 - 06:26 - From: Rod Little
Title: Race Brakes
Message: Would not run Kevlar or race pads - they don't last long and you will spend more time cleaning your wheels than driving the car.

Jul 18, 2000 - 06:59 - From: Steve
Title: Amp Location
Message: Has anyone fitted an amplifier and/or autochanger in the hood compartment ? Seems like there's plenty of room and ventilation would be good hood up or down.

Jul 18, 2000 - 08:54 - From: Jack B
Title: Looking for Esprit owners?
Message: I have a 1988 Esprit Turbo and it would be great to be able to communicate with other owners about service and performance issues. Anyone out there from Minnesota (Twin Cities)? I look forward to hearing from you, or anyone who could refer me to a Web site for Esprit owners.

Jul 18, 2000 - 09:43 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Brakes
Message: If you are going to compare US to UK sourced parts, don't forget the exchange rate works out to 1.7 US Dollars per 1 British Pound, Value Added Tax (VAT), shipping from England to the US (several hundred dollars for anything under six weeks due to the weight), the amount of time that shipping takes, customs and duty fees of 5-10% levied on the package once it passes through the customs office, and that replacement parts from the same source has to pass through all of the previously mentioned concerns. Once VAT, shipping, and customs is worked into the price, it comes out almost dead even._ _ _I'm not seeing any comparison of KVR to KVR, since they dictate their flat price. Everyone wants to compare price alone between a US manufactured product to a overseas manufactured product, probably assembled in a UK protectorate, not in England, which is the norm for UK companies._ _ _By the way, I've never seen anyone from Top End, Chris Niel, or anyplace else here answering questions about big brake kits or any other concern._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 18, 2000 - 10:44 - From: Brian MDB
Title: UK Suppliers
Message: Relatively speaking the internet and e-mail is still in its infancy in the UK which could be why those companies are not contributing in the same way that you are. It's great that you take the trouble to share your wisdom with the group in an interesting and helpful way, this must go along way towards gaining the confidence of potential customers. Keep up the good work !! Incidentally the exchange rate with the UK is favourable right now $1.5 = 1ukp)for importing stuff, but you rightly point out there are hidden costs and the wrong parts do get sent and sometimes lost which could be a big hassle...

Jul 18, 2000 - 11:26 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Exchange Rate
Message: Don't forget the percentage the bank takes for changing money from one country's currency to another. The credit card companies do the same. Drawing up a cashier's check, money order, bank check in foreign funds incurs another charge, as does a wire transfer from one bank to another. I do this several times a month and have found that calculating the rate at 1.7:1 keeps it very accurate with all the fees and costs of just transferring the money._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 18, 2000 - 12:27 - From: Paul Sloper
Title: Misfire at 4000 rpm
Message: My elan misfires at about 4000 rpm. This happens not all of the time and when it is misfiring if I stop and restart the engine the problem goes away. I also have a fault with the engine light and the seat belt light which do not work

Jul 18, 2000 - 12:58 - From: Steve P
Title: Ordering from Top End
Message: I am wondering if anyone else is having to wait a long time for orders to arrive from Top End? I am a bit worried as I spotted a notice on another board from someone who claimed Top End had debited their credit card but not delivered the goods after a month! I've e-mailed them a few days ago, but no response as of yet. They have always responded quickly in the past. Does anyone know, more locally (I'm in the UK!) if everything is OK with them at present. Thanks

Jul 18, 2000 - 13:37 - From: Dave Schmid
Title: Brakes
Message: I don't want to beat this to death about brakes, but I'll share some info. I am racing a 91 Elan RHD NA with HSR and have used the standard brake system with upgraded pads. I've using Carbotech Panther pads and have had excellent results as far as the pads are concerned. I haven't had any heat failure or pedal lost. I will usually brake from 120 MPH from a straight to 30 MPH in less than 100ft and still sometimes find that I started braking to early. I can get about 500+ miles from a set, at full time racing, I think that is great, especially since the pads are the cheapest part of the system, I wish the tires would last that long. I also don't want to get the pads to thin and loose the heat dissipation that they have. I did have one failure from the stock calibers. The right side piston froze and held the brake pad, so the pad burned up. I changed the pads out between qualifying lap sessions and was back to normal. I've since added a 2-1/2" air duct to each side (it's tight getting between the radiator and oil cooler, but can be done). I would like to upgrade, more for the sense of having a reliable caliber, since the pistons have a tendency to warp under high heat. I'm using Mogul brake fluid with great success. I also am using the Panther pads on my every day Elan and have a much more reliable system than stock Lotus pads. The pads do create above normal dusting, but it is not erosive or damaging to the paint like Hawk pads are. I haven't had the pads on long enough to give a street/highway mileage life. The pads are $127 which is higher than some, but I know they will stop me every time. Carbotect does not stock these and you will have to send them cores to be relined each time. I usually have two sets on hand. I will probably upgrade and have also been talking to AP (they are a proven manufacturer), due to the racing and heavy demand on the system, but for now pads are an economical solution to improved braking. Unless you are planning on doing a lot of racing and consistent hard braking, just upgrading the pads should be your first step and then go from there. It looks like there are many pads to choose from.

Jul 18, 2000 - 14:16 - From: George
Title: Dacia
Message: Ahh, driving the Elan during your college days. I remember those times. Enjoy it, the car is great and it's a cool little "tool." Did not see your name in the directory, I was trying to find out more about your car. Tell us about your Elan! :-)

Jul 18, 2000 - 14:46 - From: charlie
Title: top end
Message: i live around the corner from top end, i was going to pop round anyway to see steve and get a new pipe.. ..... And i hope Bill isn't feeling unappreciated either, i know for a fact that theres a lot of people here that are very happy to see him here and all the time and effort he puts into this board and elan RnD stuff..

Jul 18, 2000 - 18:25 - From: Dacia
Title: My elan
Message: Don't know who was asking for more about my elan, as the listed name was mine and I didn't post it. However, I did add myself to the owners list for anyone interested. It was kind of tricky because it was in the family before it was specifically mine. I haven't done any repairs just yet, though it needs a number of them. I know my father had it repainted (the clear coat bubbled), and had the engine reworked and had all the belts replaced just before I took it from him. I need to fix the AC (the heat in Phoenix is killing me!), fix the left headlamp motor, the windows are starting to falter, the right-side mirror (just the glass and the black plastic it rests in) fell off and broke, and it needs some interior cosmetic repairs. They will be fixed slowly and surely as funds are somewhat limited. Hopefully I will be able to do some myself. So you will continue to see me around. Despite all that, I my car is my favorite thing next to my dog!

Jul 18, 2000 - 18:30 - From: Steve P
Title: Brakes
Message: I've used the EBC front rotors and Greenstuff pads for some months now and have to say that I'm very pleased with the improvement they've given over the originals. The car seems to retard far better. I'll find out what they're like on the track later this week ;-) My previous track experience with the originals was not a good one, but they were in a fairly poor condition. The great thing is that the EBC kit works well, costs significantly less that standard parts and does NOT increase the unsprung mass. I have to say that the braking efficiency on the Elan is not as good as a completely standard Mazda Xedos 6 I use daily. The braking efficiency on both vehicles is checked at 12 month intervals for the MOT test. The efficiency is calculated on the overall braking force (Front + Rear) and the vehicles weight. The Elan efficiency suffers because of the low braking figures at the rear, which unfortunately cannot be compensated for even with the EBC disc/pad combination. I guess using larger front discs would help, but ultimately you will be limited by the grip of the front tyres. Once locked they won't help you stop. No doubt Lotus arrived at the braking bias split after much deliberation and decided that it was the safest compromise.

Jul 18, 2000 - 18:35 - From: Doug
Title: Bill
Message: Yeah, I agree with Charlie. I took a look at the Storm Board and those guys can be downright rude to Bill. At least we are not like that! Hey does anyone have an Unorthodox pulley installed in their Elan??

Jul 18, 2000 - 18:41 - From: George Swetland
Title: Oil Industry shock! Lotus Leak Source Found!
Message: Its true. All this fretting over cam end plugs, etc! Whilst changing my spark plugs yesterday a.m. (while the engine was cold, Doug...) I discovered my Cam Cover Bolts not even finger tight! I plan now to wash off the swarf, and see if it stops. Doug, should we add this to the Tech/ Service section! George Swetland

Jul 18, 2000 - 18:48 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Not asking for appreciation, sympathy, or gratitude
Message: I just really don't like being characterized as someone who is trying to gouge people out of money to purchase parts for their car. I've said it before, my markup is so low that it would put most shops out of business very quickly. The parts cost more to buy because they cost more to make and would cost twice what I charge if they were offered by just about anyone else in the industry._ _ _On the pulleys, they work out to about 9% improvement of horsepower at the flywheel, a little over 14 HP on the 1.6 liter turbo engine._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 19, 2000 - 02:54 - From: David S
Title: prices
Message: Bill I dont think anyone here was saying that you were gouging anyone, As all of us know sh*t rolls down hill and its the end sales channel that typically gets the lowest cut, what my references were pointed to were the parts makers themselves, I have looked into these kits since this message string started and am finding out that there is a big disparity in prices at least in the brembo kits, they all include the crossdrilled rotors, 4ptn calipers, steel lines and fluid and seem to run around 1700 to 2100 bucks, why does KVR charge $1000 avg price more, they cant be charging that much for just a bracket specific to the lotus, all the cars the make these kits for have to go thru the same r&d and liability regardless of make or model, and the elans dont seem to be a weird setup that would require any additional brackets or special rotors or calipers, those parts are shared with a number of other cars so all i can figure is that it sits with the brackets....help me out here what is KVR doing different with the elan setups and what are they adding to these kits over what brembo supplies in their own kits

Jul 19, 2000 - 04:35 - From: Craig
Title: I'm going to kill some f**ker
Message: Sorry for the language there guys but imagine coming out of your house to find the Lotus on bricks !!!! ie: all wheels stolen !!!!! Before anybody says anything I don't have a garage at my present house! I live in a quiet village (too quiet) and they just came at night an spun them off, leaving my Elan resting precariously on bricks on the fibreglass underbody!! I am now buying some 16" Lotus alloys to replace the 15" ones which were taken (company paying fortunately !). Time for locking wheel nuts I think - are they standard ones ? Someone at Lotus said that if I upgrade to 16" alloys I need to upgrade the suspension too - is this true ? In the meantime - if any of you UK guys are approached by someone with a full set of very good condition Elan alloys for sale - can you kill the person for me - very slowly......Cheers

Jul 19, 2000 - 05:18 - From: George
Title: Wheels
Message: Craig, sorry about what happened, that really blows. About the wheels; I believe that the if you upgrade to the 16" wheels, you DO NOT have to modify the suspension. If I am correct, the reason for the different wheels, 15" &16" is mainly for appearance. I do not believe the suspension set up is different between the UK & US Elans. I know that there are differences in suspension set up between the S1 &S2, that's about it.

Jul 19, 2000 - 07:25 - From: Steve Ottewell
Title: Vibration
Message: I'm after some advice. When accelerating I have a very noisy "vibration" coming front the front end of the car. This only occurs when the car is in motion and I can not find anything which is obviously loose. However, I've noticed what I believe to be a damper? on the front of the clutch housing and am wondering if its possible that this has lost strength and the exhaust is vibrating where it passes above the chassis. Any comments any one?

Jul 19, 2000 - 07:32 - From: Ian H
Title: Brakes / CD Changer Location / Speakers
Message: A lot has been said about the Elan brakes and yes they can get pretty ropey. But, if you look after them they are absolutely fine for standard road use. I have recently overhauled the brakes getting replacement calipers £50UKP (Front) each and £80UKP (Rear) see www.classicbrakes.co.uk for info. I have also replaced the pads with EBC greenstuff which are excellent. The brake fluid replaced with DOT 4 synthetic running on Standard discs. Now these are bedded in I am more than happy with the performance, no fade and instant bite, and more importantly there is no sideways pull. Steve, I have installed my 10CD changer in the hood compartment and have had no problems. I have ran the cable through the centre and then up through the battery compartment. To secure the Changer I have used sticky backed velcro (sounds dodgy but works well) using the rough side which grips the carpet nicely, the CD has not jumped once since i have had it. After having my rear speakers replaced I have now built some boxes which fit behind the seat with the speakers facing upwards, which improves the sound greatly.

Jul 19, 2000 - 07:57 - From: Rod Little
Title: Stolen Wheels
Message: Craig, real sorry to hear about your wheels, they are not worth that much as many people have traded in S1 ( 15" wheels ) for Federal ( USA 16" ) or S2 ( 16" ) wheels. In fact many dealers will no longer offer a discount if you trade your old wheels for new ones. You do not have to go for a suspension change, however Lotus did come out with a kit to fit S2 suspension onto an S1. They claim it gives a more composed ride, however I discovered the BBS S2 wheels are heavier than the OZ S1 wheels, so it more likely the suspension kit ( it has a Lotus part number ) is to compensate for the heavier wheels.

Jul 19, 2000 - 09:27 - From: Bill Luton
Title: David
Message: I've pointed out that KVR charges a flat rate for any car, regardless if it is a Yugo or a Mercedes. There is no price difference for Lotus. You cite finding kits for less but fail to mention what those kits contain, who the manufacturer is and what the manufacturers of all the parts is, what quality the kits are, and most importantly, if they have a product for the Elan M100 (which makes the whole comparison a moot point). I've already pointed out several examples of poor quality products: Goodridge killed two people, AEM increased braking from 60 MPH by two feet. Parts that work and don't kill people cost more. Comparing the Goodridge hoses against the SMC hoses is a case in point. Jason's Goodridge hoses lasted from August 3, 1999 through October 19, 1999, when the hoses seperated from the ends and failed (crellinj@it.postoffice.co.uk). Goodridge uses the cheapest ends they can buy. SMC uses higher quality ends with better clamping grip. Those ends, all twelve of them, cost over twice as much as the ends that Goodridge uses, and this is the reason that SMC hoses cost more. In short, they cost more because they work. Differences like this within the kits, like specifying SMC hoses only, make drastic differences in both quality and price._ _ _You might also want to stop by your local machine shop and ask them how much they would charge to fabricate things, on the books, with a receipt (not working out of their pocket after hours without reporting that income). This might open your eyes on how much custom fabrication costs._ _ _And, yes, Elans do have a unique brake setup to anything in the US. There are no salvage yard steering knuckles to be had to use for development and all sample parts must be purchased from Lotus at the standard exorbitant rate. That KVR is charging the same for Yugos and Mercedes as Elan shows they are absorbing those costs._ _ _If all this is so easy, why don't you go to the salvage yard, randomly select some rotors and calipers, slap them on your car, and report back to us on how well they work and how much it cost to get them to work right. Just don't drive anywhere near me, I like breathing and having an Elan with failed, jerry-rigged brakes parked on top of my carcass doesn't do much to keep me breathing._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 19, 2000 - 14:52 - From: David S
Title: Bill
Message: Bill I just told you what those kits contained, they are the brembo kits with all the same components listed with the KVR kit, I have asked numerous times now what the difference is with the KVR ones and what they add to the standard Brembo kits...the only thing i can figure is the bracket, and yes i have been to the machine shop and its 76 bucks an hour with 3 hours quoted for fabrication, so lucky for me my friend across the street is a machinist with a full shop on his property, and who routinely reconstructs or fabricates parts for vintage autos...and the reason that i dont go to the junkyard and do it myself is because I wouldnt trust myself picky out parts and designing my own system because i am a computer engineer and not a mechanical engineer...while it is not "easy" for me to do something like this, it should be "easy" for these guys putting these kits together everyday, thats their expertise or so we should all hope...and here is a link showing the parts that the brembo kits come with, http://www.brembo.com/prod_highperform.html this is the brembo page itself and i have seen lower prices for the same kits, what i want to know is does it cost ~$900 additional to make a bracket for the elan or does KVR add something else, and if so what...I dont think these are unreasonable questions, i work hard for my money just like everyone else and am not going to waste it...so the way it looks to me is that they are charging that 900 bucks to make a bracket???

Jul 19, 2000 - 16:30 - From: Bill Luton
Title: David
Message: You are being unreasonable and you haven't listed the manufacturers of all the parts involved in these supposed kits you keep referring to. KVR assembles their kits from scratch, selecting parts from various manufacturers to work together and fabricating their own parts to make the pieces work together. Count on 20+ man hours of fabrication. If you can do it yourself, get your dremel tool out and see just how far you get. Reading your continual slurry of garbage on this topic is doing nothing but illustrate that you have absolutely no concept of what you are talking about, what it takes to manufacture a product, and what a product that has been manufactured is worth. Go to the junk yard, pick up the first set of calipers and disks you see when you walk through the gate, try to put them on your car and see just how far you get. You simply have no idea of the work and engineering that goes ito anything and you want everything to be given to you, change that, you want people to pay you to take what they have, and you want it on a silver platter. The world does not work that way. If you do not see the value or worth of a manufactured product, don't buy it. Don't complain to me about it, I don't want to hear or read the tripe. Seal yourself in your home and do not in any way deal with the outside world, which has progressed far past slavery or 1950s inflation levels._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 19, 2000 - 16:47 - From: Steve P
Title: 16in Wheels on Euro Elan
Message: I know that quite a few owners have replaced the 15in rims with 16in US. Yes they do look cool ;-) However the Lotus service notes state: "Due to corresponding changes in suspension components, the two types of wheel/tyre assembly(15in&16in) are NOT interchangeable". On another note, my MAP sensor went faulty causing an error code 31. It only caused a problem after an extended high speed run, engine coughing and jumping like a spring bunny. Changed the sensor and all is now well, engine is a lot smoother but I'm £114 worse off (That's what Lotus charge for the MAP sensor!).

Jul 19, 2000 - 18:53 - From: charlie
Title: it might be dumb , but!
Message: i too had annoying vibrating noise coming from the front of the car, I couldn't find it, it took driving around for 20 minutes with a passenger climbing about the car with a fine ear to track it down. Turned out that i had a hammon organ stuck in the front grill after driving through a open at concert, or perhaps its was that the windshield wiper arm was just touching the windshield and rattling (one of these is true)....... If the vibration is actually causing the steering wheel to vibrate and lots of road noise, I too had that and it was indeed the calipers and a slightly bent rotor..

Jul 19, 2000 - 20:36 - From: Dave Schmid
Title: Suspension 16 vs 15
Message: I looked up the suspension differences in the Lotus Factory parts manual and the only parts that are different between the 15" and 16" front suspension are the upper wishbones. The 16" upper front wishbone is B100C0117F for LH and B100C0116F for the RH the rear upper wishbone is B100C0115F for both. It is my understanding that the primary difference is due to the difference in height that requires the alignment adjustments to be changed. I have both US and UK cars and suspension systems. I changed the UK to 16" since I race the car and I had to modify the camber tabs on the upper wishbone to be able to properly set the camber. I ground off the welds and moved the tabs outward about 8 mm. The rear suspension is the same for both except there are differences between a 5 deg. and a 2.5 deg.angle. The lower rear wishbone, linkstay and top link are different between the two angles. It was my understanding that the angle was changed to improve the suspension and not due to wheel size for the rear. You could try the wheels first with the tires that you want to use and modify the camber tabs if needed when you align the car. I also use the camber adjustment with the eccentric washer (used on earlier cars) for adjustment vs the camber shim plates. It is tough to get the plates in a variety of sizes (7), a 1mm change equals a 1/2 degree and it is much more difficult to change them in and out for the final adjustments. The adjustments are Castor +1 deg; +1/2 deg., -0 deg.; Camber -1/4 deg.; +/- 1/4 deg.; Steering Axis inclination 10 1/2 deg.; Toe Out 0 deg. to 1/4 deg.; scrub radius -3 mm. I hope this helps.

Jul 19, 2000 - 20:43 - From: David S
Title: final words on this topic
Message: I don't know why you have turned this into some type of conflict but its your problem not mine, I have always appreciated the information that you have given us in the past and even volunteered my car to you when you were having the exhausts made if you couldn't find anyone local to Stan's...I have not only said what parts were in the kits but also provided the link that showed the entire Brembo kit so get your head out of your ass and quit acting like some kind of slighted child, You seem to think that a potential customer who asks questions and expects answers before they spit out $3000 is unreasonable and spouting a "continual slurry of garbage" it was Doug and not I that was talking about making a kit from the junkyard so if you have issues with that talk to him...I have only been trying to find out what the KVR kit included instead of, above, or beyond the full Brembo kit, because the description on your page was less than descriptive ...and to see if their pricing was justified...I ended up having to call KVR directly to find out what was included because you couldn't answer my simple questions, And they informed me that they do NOT have a kit for the M100 Elans and that they do not even carry the Brembo calipers anymore and haven't done so for 2 years, so it seems you should update your info ... they did inform me that if I wanted to send them the steering knuckle that they would make a custom kit for between $2600 and $2800 including the AP calipers, KVR rotors, stainless lines, pads, and fluid....As for getting out of the house it seems that your the one that needs to look around, I am only 33 and have no idea what you experienced in the 1950's and have never kept any slaves (unless you count that one girlfriend who liked the leather restraints, but I digress), what I do know is that in today's market place when people can research globally and ask questions from people who share common interests around the world, you better treat your potential customers with a little more respect than you have, rest assured that I wont be buying my new brakes or exhaust system from you now.

Jul 19, 2000 - 20:53 - From: David S
Title: FUN STUFF
Message: Ok george, Jaime, Tom, and any other NOCAL Lotus kids, where should we meet on Saturday and at what time? I am actually going to take an entire day off (dont pass out George its true) and can work around everyone elses schedules, George any word yet on your car, do jaime or i need to get you? Charlie is that hammon organ stock or after market

Jul 19, 2000 - 21:03 - From: Bill Luton
Title: David
Message: There is a significant difference between a potential customer and you. A potential customer is asking questions to learn and make decisions. You have no intention of purchasing any product and are in fact looking for excuses for why you should not buy the product. I learned a long time ago not to let my suppliers know what they are building or working on for security. KVR has no record of any Elan kits because we do not identify our special order products by application. We spent the money to develop the parts, no one else shall profit from the money we expend on R&D. Now, if you don't mind not wasting any more of my time and Doug's web space, I have serious customers to serve._ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 19, 2000 - 22:36 - From: George
Title: About Sat.
Message: Dave, I do not know if my car will be done by Sat. I spoke to Jaime yesterday, he informed me that he has some business he needs to take care of during day time. In the present, my schedule is not looking too happy while the sun is shining as well. :-( However, both Jaime and I were thinking about meeting up with you and Thomas (if he is available) around dinner time. After dinner, we could all cruise to the "Rail." I'll give you a call on Fri. or you could call me up. See ya and talk to ya soon! By the way, Dave and Bill; I believe none of you has any intention of offending one another. Looks like it's some miscommunication and a discussion topic that went a little too hot, that's all. Take care everyone...

Jul 20, 2000 - 01:28 - From: Brian MDB
Title: Jerry Springer
Message: Is there any truth in the rumour that Jerry Springer will be hosting this web page soon ?......

Jul 20, 2000 - 02:26 - From: Jamie
Title: Re: FUN STUFF
Message: David, unfortunately this Saturday, I'm going to be busy during the day and will not be able to meet you guys for a drive. However, I will be free at night if you guys are thinking about doing something. Let me know.

Jul 20, 2000 - 03:05 - From: David S
Title: re: Fun Stuff
Message: Jamie, I got an email from george saying that we are going to try and meet for dinner and then drive to the Rail, I haven't heard where yet for dinner, any suggestions? Thomas are you still up for meeting? Anyone else in the Bay area interested email either myself or George and we will map something out

Jul 20, 2000 - 05:04 - From: George
Title: Sat. Meet.
Message: Dave, Jaime, and Thomas. Shall we plan dinner around 7ish? Any type of food or place you guys prefer? I.E. location wise, Palo Alto & Menlo Park area, Redwood Shores, or somewhere more south such as Mountain View, Sunnyvale? I am game for any of those places, just tell me where and what kind of food and I'll set up a reservation for all of us guys! Can't wait to meet up with all of you!

Jul 20, 2000 - 09:46 - From: Dennis Cahill
Title: '91 M100 Rear Shocks/Struts
Message: Does anyone know of a replacement rear shock other than OEM?

Jul 20, 2000 - 10:01 - From: Bill Luton
Title: Shocks
Message: AVO http://www.isuzuperformance.com/bills/susshock.html#avo _ _ _Bill Luton

Jul 20, 2000 - 13:37 - From: Tony V
Title: Indicator light problems
Message: I keep burning out the right outer turn signal bulb in my 91 Elan....I burned out the original that was in there...(Don't know if it is THE original), but i keep blowing them out....I am using a standard USA spec bulb...does this need a special bulb...or is there another problem... Any help would be appreciated....

Jul 20, 2000 - 14:49 - From: chalrie
Title: Hammond Organs
Message: Does anyone have info on the life of the turbo and if it ought to remanufactured or whatever after a certain amount of time ? Also does anyone know if lotus are still selling the engines cheap, or if a dealer has got some of them ? Also Bill my old rotors just arrived, they were in transit while i moved, i realize it might be too late but do you still want them ?

Jul 20, 2000 - 17:21 - From: Craig
Title: I Got my new wheels !!!
Message: Well, I got my new 16"'s to replace the stolen 15"'s from earlier this week. I've now got major paranoia about these ones getting nicked too - I have locking wheel nuts now but is there anything else I can do to stop them having a go ?? I just know they will be back to check my car out again one night. What alarms / motion sensors / locks are there that are reliable - or should I get an apache gunship on standby at the local RAF base, or perhaps a tiger, or a ford fiesta (pull yourself together craig !)............

Jul 20, 2000 - 17:32 - From: George
Title: Craig
Message: lol, I understand your paranoia. It's completely normal after an incidence like that. Regarding alarms, I do recommend Clifford Concept series. You could get one of those with sensitivity adjustment, the usual alarm features, as well as a proximity sensor. I believe the would thing include installation would be around 300 bucks.

Jul 20, 2000 - 19:28 - From: Doug
Title: Stuff
Message: Well, how about a "cooling off period" with no brakes discussion until next week??! Craig, the wheel locks will make it hard and discourage them, but a sign posted saying they are being videotaped by your infrared handycam will raise their brows a bit and is cheap to make!! I find a cover to be the cheapest and most effective vandalism/break-in deterrent--the gunship sounds like a cool idea too. What wheels did you get? I cannot imagine any way the suspension could tell the difference between wheels of different sizes as long as the outside rolling diameter of the tires are the same! Tony, you may have a voltage problem to that light caused by a corroded or loose wire--you could use a voltmeter to watch the current voltage to the bulb socket and see if it is spiking with the engine running. Charlie, the turbo (being of the turbine family) should have a high TBO (time before overhaul) as they are a simple and reliable unit. Factor in your abuse of it without a bypass valve and other things and its life is variable. I think the number of Elan owners who have needed an overhaul of the turbo speaks for itself. Steve, check where the exhaust pipe runs beneath the engine and be sure it is not touching the frame as it passes back--this can cause it to resonate at a specific RPM. George S., shame on you--that should be an obvious problem--at least you didn't change the plugs with the engine running!

Jul 20, 2000 - 20:56 - From: Doug
Title: A/C juice
Message: Anyone know about or want to look into the possibility of converting the Elan A/C juice from R-12 to R-134??!! It sure would be nice to be able to go to the corner store for a cheap do-it-yourself recharge!!

Jul 20, 2000 - 21:52 - From: Peter Seow
Title: Maintence Bills
Message: Looks like martins seals are leaking or it could be due to a malfunctioning turbo. My bmw had some black smoke only on start-ups occasionally but I came across another engine in excellent condition at a low price hence swapped the engine. I figured that it wasn't economical to do any engine jobs and at the same time my auto transmission was changed just say that maintaining a bmw can be the same as an elan sometimes.

Jul 21, 2000 - 01:37 - From: Winston Cuenant
Title: Saturday Meet
Message: Are there any last minute changes to the saturday meet or are we meeting at Race Rock still. If so, how many elans are going to be there?

Jul 21, 2000 - 02:46 - From: George
Title: BMW vs. Elan Maintenance.
Message: Besides the E430, the Elan is one of the most reliable car I've ever encountered with. Sure, the usual little things would go wrong, such as cable. I am fortunate that I have not had to replace the CAS, the window was broken-by my dog, and have not yet encountered the common downpipe problem. Before the 430, I had a 93 BMW 740i. Talk about a maintenance nightmare. The Bimmer had problems popping up left and right from day one. After 70,000 miles, I was literally spending around $1,000/month just to keep that damn car going. Finally, one day, the car caught fire. So, I traded in for a new E430. The money I've spent on maintaining that BMW, I could've got myself another Elan or two. The verdict: BMW are nice cars, but not even close to reliable at all. My buddy that owns a mechanic shop agreed with me: stay away from Bimmers.

Jul 21, 2000 - 02:50 - From: Dacia
Title: Thermostat
Me